Building a Thriving Relationship Therapy Practice and Debunking Myths, with Nadyne Busichio: Ep. 28
- Episode Topic:
In this episode of Mastering Counseling, Nadyne Busichio, a licensed professional counselor and Gottman Level Three couple therapy expert at Busichio Counseling, shares her journey and insights into the world of couple therapy. Join us as we explore the transformative power of therapy in healing and strengthening relationships, dismiss common misconceptions about couple therapy, and gain valuable advice for aspiring counselors. Discover how the field of counseling is evolving and the essential qualities for the next generation of counselors to thrive in helping individuals and couples build healthier, more connected relationships.
- Lessons You’ll Learn:
In this conversation with Nadyne Busichio, you’ll learn key lessons about counseling and relationships. Couple therapy isn’t just for troubled relationships; it can strengthen healthy ones too. Cultural sensitivity and self-care are vital for counselors, and fostering a strong therapeutic alliance helps address misconceptions. Ultimately, relationship therapy has the power to create profound transformations.
- About Our Guest:
Nadyne Busichio, our esteemed guest, is a licensed professional counselor and a Level Three Gottman Couple Therapist. With over 15 years of personal experience in a committed relationship and raising a family, Nadyne’s journey led her to become a dedicated advocate for helping couples and individuals through couple therapy, build healthier, more fulfilling relationships. Her expertise in the Gottman Method, based on extensive research, provides valuable insights into transforming relationships and fostering emotional connections. Nadyne’s passion lies in guiding clients through the intricate world of relationships, offering hope, tools, and support for those seeking to mend and strengthen their bonds.
- Topics Covered:
In the insightful conversation with Nadyne Busichio, we delved into a range of compelling topics related to relationships and personal growth. We explored the foundations of healthy relationships, examining communication, conflict resolution, and emotional intimacy. Nadyne also shared valuable insights on the renowned Gottman Method and its application in couple therapy. We discussed the impact of technology on modern relationships and the importance of self-awareness and self-care in nurturing personal and romantic connections. Additionally, we touched on the transformative power of vulnerability and how it can deepen emotional bonds. Overall, this conversation offered a comprehensive exploration of key facets of relationships and personal development.
Our Guest: Nadyne Busichio – Psychotherapist of Nadyne Busichio Counseling, LLC
Nadyne is a compassionate and dedicated Licensed Professional Couple Therapy expert based in the state of New Jersey. With a specialization in helping both couples and individuals, she possesses a unique skill set aimed at resolving past wounds, fostering effective communication, and rebuilding connections and intimacy. Her mission is to empower her clients to create the relationships they truly deserve.
Nadyne’s therapeutic style is characterized by its warmth and collaboration. She believes in keeping it real and is known for her direct yet compassionate approach. When working with her clients, she doesn’t shy away from addressing issues as she sees them, always with the client’s best interests at heart.
Nadyne’s genuine passion lies in helping people and offering the support they need most. Her commitment to facilitating healing and guiding individuals towards lives filled with greater ease, joy, and meaning is evident in her professional work. If you’re seeking a therapist who combines genuine empathy with a realistic and solution-focused approach, Nadyne is here to support you on your journey to healing and personal growth.
Nadyne Busichio: I have a couple where there’s a history of infidelity and they have three small kids and they come in and it seems hopeless, but they’re so committed to doing the work and they’re doing it even when it’s difficult, even when they feel like they don’t want to do it anymore. But over time, I start to see the change even in the session and things become more playful. There’s more laughter. They’re turning to each other. They’re accepting each other’s bids. There’s more affection, they’re sitting closer. This is powerful stuff, and this can happen if you’re committed and you want to do this, you can do this.
Becky Coplen: Welcome to Mastering Counseling, the weekly business show for counselors. I’m your host, Becky Coplen. I’ve spent 20 years working in education in the role of both teacher and school counselor. Each episode we’ll be exploring what it takes to thrive as a counseling business owner, from interviews with successful entrepreneurial counselors to conversations with industry leaders on trends and the next generation of counseling services, to discussions with tech executives whose innovations are reshaping counseling services. If it impacts counseling, we cover it on Mastering Counseling.
Welcome to another episode of Mastering Counseling, where we dive deep into the world of therapy and the business behind it. I’m your host, Becky Coplen. Today we’re diving into the intricate world of relationships and therapy with an esteemed guest. It’s my pleasure to introduce Nadyne Busichio, a Licensed Professional Counselor and a Gottman Level 3 couples therapist, whose expertise in transforming relationships and fostering emotional connections. This is going to be such an exciting time to hear from you, Nadyne, and welcome to the show.
Nadyne Busichio: Thanks so much for having me. I look forward to chatting today.
Becky Coplen: Let’s go ahead and start by uncovering your early journey and the inspiration behind establishing Busichio Counseling and your commitment to helping couples and individuals build healthier, more fulfilling relationships.
Nadyne Busichio: So I’ve been with my husband for 15 years. We’ve been together for about 15 years, and we have two small children. My daughter’s seven and my son is five. And our lives are really busy, just like millions of couples out there. And especially as our kids get older and they become more involved in the things that they love, it doesn’t get slower. It gets busier and crazier and more hectic and Covid happens. So I think that’s where it all began for me. Because like so many other people, I’m in that rat race and I’m on that hamster wheel and things are just going. And all of a sudden, like millions of other families, we had to navigate a very rapidly changing world. We were all home, which at first, I think just like millions of other families, everyone was like dog, this is going to be great. We’re going to spend so much time together and we’re going to bond and it’s going to be wonderful.
And then very quickly it became stressful because it wasn’t ending and we had to work from home. We had to educate our kids from home. But then on top of all of that, we had to continue to try to have a happy, thriving marriage. And we struggled. People struggled. And the need for marriage therapy grew exponentially. And I felt that I really understood that on a personal level. And I knew the steps that I was taking in my own relationship because I knew how important it was to not allow our relationship to suddenly be at the bottom of everything else. We had to work hard to maintain. And it’s work. It’s not just, oh, this is easy, as a lot of people think it should be. No, it’s work. Relationships are work. And so I knew that it was important not just for us as a couple. It was important for my kids to see that. And so as I knew I was going through this, I knew there were millions of other couples going through this. So I knew at that point I really wanted nothing more but to really dive in and start helping other people.
Becky Coplen: I hear that on so many levels. Of course, reviewing 2020, the 2022, or whatever, is always restructuring our lives for sure. And then I myself have four children and they’re a little bit older than yours, and you are totally correct. It changes, but the busyness just increases and it’s I’m also married and, it’s so much work. So I love how your personal story connected to now this thriving business. So that’s amazing!
Nadyne Busichio: I became very personal. It did. I also feel that was something that was always within me from a really young age that was like, I can remember and I know that we might get to that, but I just know that was always something from a very young age. I knew I just always wanted to help people, but it became a whole new thing for me once Covid hit.
Becky Coplen: So needed that for sure. And all parts of the US and the world. So let’s talk a little more specifically about The Gottman Level 3 Couples therapy. Your expertise in relationship dynamics is exceptional. Definitely a specific niche, if you will then General Therapy. How does this specialized training influence your approach to counseling and your ability to guide couples in resolving past wounds and even rebuilding intimacy?
Nadyne Busichio: So to start, I do think it is very specialized and it wasn’t something I naturally gravitated to when I was in grad school. I think like everybody else. I went through the program and the motions and they don’t have marriage counseling classes in grad school, at least not in mine. And so I sought it out and I continued to get more specialized training. I fell in love with it. And I really do think it is important for couples seeking couples therapy to see a therapist who specializes in this work. Couples Therapy is very different than individuals. Obviously, it’s very different than individual therapy.
But it’s an art which, as you said, it does require that advanced specialized training, I think, because it’s one of the more difficult forms of therapy to deliver effectively, because to start, there’s two people in the room. And as a couples therapist, it’s my job to build connection and rapport with both partners because I don’t want to isolate either one, and I don’t want one to feel that they’re being attacked. And I’m taking sides with one, right? So I have to have a confidence going in. And with couples, you have to able or I have to be able to be very direct and be a leader because they’re looking for that. They’re looking for you to guide them. They’re looking for you to be a leader in that room. And I have to be able to teach them what’s necessary for them to take out of that room and take home with them. So it takes time to build that confidence and the trust of both partners. That’s where that advanced training really is so important.
Becky Coplen: Fascinating. I love you pointing out for our listeners just how intricate and I’m sure even different from family therapy and then, of course, opposed to individual therapy. So thank you for clarifying that. Your practice is dedicated to helping young couples or older couples learn effective communication and rebuilding connections. Could you highlight maybe some success stories that showcase the transformational power of therapy in healing relationships?
Nadyne Busichio: I have so many, but I think some of my favorite stories, without giving away too much personal information. I had one couple come to me and they were separated for almost a year by the time they came to me, but they were very committed to working on the relationship and they allowed me to guide them through this journey and it wasn’t always easy. And after about six months of doing the work and really putting in that effort, they moved back in together. And eventually, we concluded our work together and I received a letter from them thanking me for saving their marriage. And that was the best feeling in the world because they had two small children. And I know what an incredible change that was, not just for their relationship, but for their family dynamics and for their children and the future generations of their family.
So that in itself is, I can’t even describe the feeling. It’s just that right there, it’s just amazing and worth it. And I have several I mean, there’s several stories like that, right? Where there’s I have a couple where there’s a history of infidelity and they have three small kids and they come in and it seems hopeless, but they’re so committed to doing the work and they’re doing it even when it’s difficult, even when they feel like they don’t want to do it anymore. But over time, I start to see the change even in the session and things become more playful, there’s more laughter. They’re turning to each other. They’re accepting each other’s bids. There’s more affection. They’re sitting closer. This is powerful stuff, and this can happen. If you’re committed and you want to do this, you can do this.
Becky Coplen: Thank you for sharing that story. Thinking of you a little bit more personally, which you have already shared your passion for that. How did your own journey of overcoming some hardships contribute to your decision to become a therapist?
Nadyne Busichio: For me, it goes back to adolescence and college, and those are pivotal times. Those are really important times, and I think those can be hard times for anybody. But during that period, there’s often relationships that we as young people try to navigate where it could be with a significant other or with friends, with family. And it’s not always easy because again, relationships are hard and they can take work. And eventually, when I was that young, I found myself in a toxic romantic relationship without a very good support system. But I did find my way out of it and I was very young, I was 18 years old. But again, like, I did make my way through it. But it wasn’t without effort and it wasn’t without doing a lot of work on myself. And I continue to work on myself daily because I feel that working on yourself, I feel like that never ends. And I always say to my clients, no one’s perfect. Let that go. Perfection is unattainable. It’s too high of a standard to achieve, and it’s just not something that we want to try to achieve. So that was part of it.
But then it didn’t stop there because shortly after that, my father was diagnosed with Parkinson’s disease. My mother had a stroke and then I find myself in my 20s as a caregiver to my parents. So I’m doing that. I eventually have a family of my own to take care of some, so I’m in that sandwich generation. And so I understood on that level the stress and how that takes a toll on your mental health, on your physical health. And I have clients who come in and I hear their stories and I relate on a deeper level, but I also know what’s waiting on the other side. I know they can make it through. I know how strong they are. I know they’re stronger than they think they are because I’m living proof of that.
Becky Coplen: Wow! That’s really powerful. And that you’ve talked about this a little bit. I don’t know if you want to add it all that. How do you ensure that your clients receive the types of support that resonate with them on a personal level?
Nadyne Busichio: The therapeutic alliance, if you will, it’s a relationship. Ideally, it’s a close and trusting one. And again, it takes time to build. And I like to invest in the earlier sessions and my interactions with my clients to build trust that will allow them to start to open up. So I like to tailor the structure of the sessions and my office to my client’s needs. And it’s not a one-size-fits-all approach because everyone comes in with a very unique set of issues and very different personalities. So that is when so for example, when people come in and they aren’t so talkative as others might be, I know I can be very talkative. I like to be social and get to know people, but if they’re not, I don’t take that personally. I like to nurture the relationship and create a safe space for them so that they can eventually begin to feel comfortable in finding their voice. When we’re together so that they will open up. I believe that it’s necessary also to get my own continuing support. I think that’s also really important. Like I said before, I’m never done working on myself, so I’m still connected with the Gottman Institute and I have my own supervisor through them who I meet with regularly and I meet with her for case consultation. So I invest a lot of time into planning for my clients and I do this outside of sessions so that I can prepare for them so that I can ensure that we are on the right path so that we’re following a productive path.
Becky Coplen: So many good things there. But what really stood out to me and I think would be intriguing to a lot of our listeners and considering the business side of this is that you change your office to the needs of the clients. And I work with children in a school primarily, and I have a lot of tools I use and there’s not a lot of space to move, but I’m imagining if I had moved to private and was with adults, how easy just the how close the chairs are and all of those things that you consider. So I’m really glad that you brought that up. That was intriguing to me. Moving on in our conversation, are there some specific strategies that you employ to help your client shift their perspectives on challenges and pave the way for growth and healing?
Nadyne Busichio: So with the Gottman method, there are a lot. First of all, the Gottman method has over 50 different techniques and tools, and strategies that we can use, which can be overwhelming, which is why I do like to continue to maintain my own case consultation with my supervisor there. But then at the same time, I think one of the most powerful tools that we use is storytelling. Which stories are the cornerstones to many of the pivotal exercises that we use to move couples forward in therapy?
So the research shows that sharing the stories that are underneath the surface of what’s really going on with their partner helps them through their differences and the difficulties that they’re happening so often that what we’ll say is that the argument, for example, which is this is a completely ubiquitous example, but the argument about the dishes office often is not about the dishes. There’s something else underneath there and we want to get to the root of that. And it’s often within those stories and then that becomes really powerful. And the idea is to really listen, to understand. So your partner doesn’t feel isolated and lonely, and through that, you begin to come back together and feel connected. And through a variety of those interventions, each partner listens, they learn, they strengthen friendship, and understand the meaning of their partner’s dreams with no judgment and no arguing a specific point of view. And once they have that deeper understanding, they begin to move forward as a team and they’re no longer fighting to win.
Becky Coplen: Sounds like if I were summarizing, I’d say you provide a safe space for honesty and depth of conversation beyond the dishes or the toothpaste or whatever it is. Can you give us some insights on how couples therapy and counseling can help individuals not only mend relationships but also cultivate a deeper emotional bond, maybe even before the problems came? How can this relationship go even stronger?
Nadyne Busichio: It kind of goes back to what I said about the relationship coming at the end of a really long to-do list. So many couples struggle with maintaining intimacy and emotional connection in their relationship. So over time, the relationship tends to be that last thing prioritized on a long to-do list. So by addressing issues such as trust, emotional distance, lack of connection, couples gain deeper understanding of each other’s needs and desires. So in therapy sessions, couples are able to explore their values, their beliefs, their expectations for the relationship, as well as gaining a better understanding of their own individual needs and their goals. And then they also gain a better understanding of each other. And so that’s where they can begin to create a relationship that meets both partners’ needs.
So many relationship issues, like I said before, are rooted in underlying issues or unresolved conflicts from the past. So in couples therapy, we identify these issues and start working to resolve them. And then by addressing the root causes of the relationship issues, they start to develop this really strong, more resilient relationship that can withstand challenges. They begin to learn how to repair. So again, we like to I like to in the Gottman method, we look at it as a house. And so my analogy to them often is the root. We have a life, a shelf life for a roof, right? So we don’t want to wait until all of a sudden the roof is leaking to repair it. We want to make those repairs before we actually need them. So typically it’s really more about the repair. We want to do that along the way, which continues to build and strengthen that house if you will.
Becky Coplen: This episode is brought to you by mastersincounseling.org. If you’re considering enrolling in a master’s level counseling program to further your career, visit mastersincounseling.org to compare school options via our search tool that allows you to sort by specific degree types tuition, our costs, online flexibility, and more.
The Gottman method is well known for its research-based approach, and you’ve shared a lot of the tools that comes out of that. Can you elaborate on specifically being trained as the counselor, how those methods help the therapist or counselor prepare to be able to work with their clients or what would it be like to be trained through this method?
Nadyne Busichio: Yeah! So the reason why I gravitated because there’s multiple modalities out there for couples therapy, but the reason why I gravitated to the Gottman method was simply because this is completely based on research. So again, instead of the therapist guessing what might work, what might not work. The Gottman method is utilizing over 40 years of research on thousands of couples to apply concrete tools, and these have been proven over time to help improve relationships.
So Dr. Gottman, Dr. John, and Julie Gottman, they used their, what they call their love lab in Seattle where couples actually stay for a weekend. And they’re recorded and they gather all the data and they utilize a lot of different things to help continue to improve this method. And the first, the beginning phases of training are like going to grad school, but then it starts to get harder the more training that you get, right? So I’m in the process of becoming a fully certified Gottman therapist, and it’s not easy. They really do want you to hone in on these skills. They don’t take it lightly. They continue to ensure that you’re perfecting everything so that you can be the absolute best therapist that you can be. And I know that it’s not for everybody, but I absolutely love getting that kind of feedback so that I can ensure I’m giving my clients the absolute best therapeutic experience to help move their marriage forward.
Becky Coplen: Thank you, that’s such a good overview to understand the process of using that method, and I’m so excited to see how much you love it and how we are always still learning. Let’s talk about some common misconceptions about couples therapy and how do you navigate these misconceptions to ensure that your clients feel comfortable and are even open to the process.
Nadyne Busichio: So there’s a few that I can definitely think of that I’m going to take one partner’s side. I hear that one a lot and it’s oftentimes because it’s happened to them before and I’m typically not the couple’s first marriage counselor, so I like to explain my process from the first phone conversation so that I can make it known that this is going to be a bit different and that I do have a process and that I’m not in collusion with either partner and that everything is going to be completely transparent and that my job with them is to treat the relationship and not you know, not one individual person and that I’m a neutral third party. And so as I explained this to them, they start to feel more at ease, especially when they know each of them is going to be heard, that the objective is so that we can create a safe space for each of them to feel seen and heard.
Another misconception is that I hear a lot is people coming in feeling like they’re a failure or that the marriage is failing, that this is this isn’t going to work because we’re in marriage counseling. And that could not be further from the truth. You know, a lot of people think that couples therapy or marriage counseling or relationship counseling that, this is for people who fight constantly or that they’re suffering from some huge betrayal. But I going to couples therapy doesn’t have to mean that your relationship is on the brink of divorce or collapse. It’s a lot of times, too, for those who just want to learn the tools to process their emotions and to really just connect with their partner on a deeper level.
Nadyne Busichio: And so this can be a great way to really get to know your partner better and to really just have, like I said, an objective third party help you work those issues out. And then one other one that I hear a lot is that therapy can really fix my relationship, which again, I hold my clients accountable for the work that we do because I see them typically one hour out of the week. And so I’m telling them that they’re going to have to make an effort. So therapy is one tool, right? But it’s not going to be the only reason why your relationship grows or deteriorates. So you can ultimately take the tools that you learn in therapy and apply them. And so in that case, the couple has a huge role into whether or not the relationship moves forward in a positive way. So in the very beginning sessions, I asked my client. What kind of marriage do they want to create? What does that look like? Why does that matter? Why is it important to you? I asked them to think about what is it going to be. What’s going to be required of them? Not their partner, but them to bring about that relationship? And I usually have to ask that question once or twice, because they’re typically pointing the finger at the other person. So I have to bring them back and say, okay, but I want to know what you’re going to do. And so that’s how we start to move forward. And they realize, okay.
Becky Coplen: Yeah, that’s really key. And we as counselors and therapists are guiding the process, but it’s really up to them. We are not the fixers, we’re just helping them to see those perspectives in a safe space. So let’s think about for individuals, maybe considering this field of counseling and therapy, especially specifically with relationships, what advice would you offer them to help them take that first step towards going into the fields?
Nadyne Busichio: Our relationships, they have a huge impact on our physical and our mental health. So think about how you take care of your house or how you take care of your car or your physical health, right? So we want to take care of our relationships in the same way because we’ll bring our car in for regular scheduled maintenance and for regular oil changes with the hopes that it can last for years and that it won’t break down. And that’s how I think that people should look at couples therapy or relationship counseling that, you know, that there’s potential for something greater and it’s completely possible to have that. So I think at looking for the looking at the decision to come in for couples counseling is a huge success and that people shouldn’t be afraid of it, whether they’re going to come in for the counseling or for those who want to be a couples therapist, that they shouldn’t be afraid to tackle it, because many people are, because it is a very challenging type of therapy because there’s a huge demand for it and there’s more people who need it. And it can be. So rewarding because relationships affect so many aspects of our lives.
Becky Coplen: Absolutely, the foundation of the relationships at home are so key to all the other parts of our life. So lots of good things in that. When you think about the future and you said how the demand is so high, what do you see the future in this field? What are your thoughts about that?
Nadyne Busichio: One of the things that instead of a tool that’s used as a way to fix relationships that are in crisis. I think it’s becoming more a part of maintenance, and that’s for a couple of reasons. One is the waning stigma of mental health. Another is that there’s more convenient access to therapists because, with Covid, everyone went virtual. And now many therapists, if not all, have at least a hybrid model. So they’re more accessible and another is social media, where people are on social media sharing their stories. So they’re relatable. And so couples are more willing to go to therapy than ever before. And then also what we’re seeing is where marriage was once looked at as necessary and a means for survival, if you will. People are going to do it for reasons other than security and tradition. For example, for the experience of it.
So to go along with that, there was a survey that was conducted which found that 85% of people still believe in the one, and 45% believe in having just one life partner was possible. So the future may be one in which people have a number of different shorter-term partners, and this was especially true for women over 45. So the way couples counseling or relationship therapy is delivered won’t necessarily be about the traditional relationship, as we might think about it. And we’re going to be looking at a multitude of factors given our diverse society. So the field is evolving.
Becky Coplen: All right. So many good things there and lots of specifics and I like that a lot of people are considering the maintenance, not waiting until something is completely broken. And I’m sure that’s exciting for you and allows you to see more people, maybe with less time. Just possibly.
Nadyne Busichio: Yeah, for sure.
Becky Coplen: Can you share with kind of a message of hope and encouragement for individuals who may be hesitant about seeking counseling but are longing for healthier, more connected relationships, even outside of marriages or any relationship?
Nadyne Busichio: The reason why I love working with couples or don’t I work with couples, but I also work with individuals who are overcoming any type of relationship issue. I work with people in regard to their relationships. I just believe relationships are at the cornerstone of so many mental and physical health issues because we’re in relationship with everybody. If you’re going to be involved with human beings, you’re in relationship, whether it be with parents or siblings or coworkers or significant others, you are in a relationship. So I know it might seem hopeless, but I’ve seen couples come back from the brink.
I’ve seen people come out of toxic relationships and come through the other side. I’ve done it and I know that it does take time, but there’s nothing more amazing and more beautiful than to watch it happen. And I can assure you that it does, in fact, happen again. I’ve witnessed it happen for so many of my clients. I’ve experienced it, and I know what’s possible. And if you are willing and wanting to roll up your sleeves and do the work. It’s absolutely possible, and I cannot emphasize that enough. And I know what’s waiting for you on the other side. And if you want to come in with an open heart and an open mind. I know that it will be the best investment that you absolutely ever make in your life and if it’s couples, you can have an absolutely stronger marriage for it. And if it’s any other relationship in your life, you might end up having a stronger relationship for it. Or you just might end up becoming a stronger version of yourself for it. And there’s nothing more worth it than that.
Becky Coplen: Thank you. That’s so inspiring and hopeful for a lot of families and couples. I think our last question today, how do you see this field evolving for individuals who complete a Masters in Counseling program? And what do you think would be some of the essential qualities for the next generation of counselors to continue thriving and possibly grow?
Nadyne Busichio: So moving into the next five, ten years, I think that there will have to be recruitment strategies in regard to universities. I think that convey to clients that they have counselors who reflect them. And so I think incorporating multicultural and social justice counseling competencies are going to be important. And I think training programs will need to provide intentional mentoring, intentional guidance, intentional professional development. I think that’s going to have to become more necessary. I think that’s more of where we’re going to move to in regard to qualities. I think some of the essential qualities for counselors, aside from being genuinely interested in other people, I think that will be necessary, right?
I also think it’s important to self-reflect and continue to work on yourself as it is to carefully observe others, be genuine and empathetic. Being able to have an empathetic connection with your client is key to moving forward. It helps build trust and having a sense of humor. We sit through a lot of uncomfortable difficulties and often traumatic stories. But that being said, it’s okay to laugh along the way. Timing is obviously important, but it’s really nice to be able to laugh with my clients and not have every single session be that heavy. But that brings me back to an earlier point of continuing to work on yourself, seek your own counseling, because we are listening to such heavy, sometimes traumatic stories and you can’t carry that with you. And it will take a toll and it’s going to manifest in some way. So take care of you so that you can be better. A better counselor, a better spouse, a better partner, a better parent, A better sibling. Friend. Just simply a healthier you. But take care of yourself. Take your oxygen first, as I say.
Becky Coplen: Absolutely. We say around here all the time we have to take care of ourselves before we can take care of these children and their families. And that is so key. I love the humor as well, which personally, we have a lot of humor in our marriage. My husband says it’s the only thing he has going for him, which is not true. But thank you for all of that. We covered a lot of ground. What a great discussion, especially the profound potential for healing and growth within relationships, specifically marriage. Thank you so much, Nadyne, for sharing your insights, your expertise, and your dedication, which we clearly saw in fostering emotional connections to our listeners. I just encourage you to continue to follow and subscribe for more insightful episodes. Go ahead and leave your reviews, share your feedback, and continue the conversation on Mastering Counseling. We’re going to say goodbye for today and we look forward to the next episodes where we dive deep into the realm of therapy and counseling. Have a wonderful day.
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