Growing a Successful Online Mental Health Practice, with Matthew Braman of Verve Psychotherapy Ep. 39

Episode Overview

• Episode Topic:
  In this captivating episode of Mastering Counseling, we engage in a captivating conversation with Matthew Braman, the founder and CEO of Verve Psychotherapy. The focus is on the journey of building a counseling business, with particular attention to Matthew’s specialization in working with new dads and men. The episode delves into the inspiration behind Verve Psychotherapy, Matthew’s extensive background in counseling, and the unique challenges faced by men in seeking mental health support. The discussion also explores therapeutic approaches, goal-setting, and the impact of counseling on individuals and families.
• Lessons You’ll Learn:
  In this segment, listeners can expect to gain insights into the nuances of starting and growing a counseling practice, especially one with a distinct focus. Matthew shares valuable lessons on goal planning, utilizing therapeutic frameworks, and addressing the specific needs of men and new dads. The episode provides a glimpse into the journey of a counselor who emphasizes empathy, collaboration, and a mindful approach to masculinity.
• About Our Guest:
  Matthew Braman, the Founder and CEO of Verve Psychotherapy. As a Licensed Clinical Social Worker in Connecticut, Georgia, and New York, Matthew brings over a decade of experience to the counseling field. Holding additional certifications as a Licensed Certified Social Worker – Clinical in Maryland and a Perinatal Mental Health Specialist (PMH-C), he specializes in supporting new dads and men. Beyond his professional roles, Matthew is a devoted husband and a hands-on dad to a toddler. His commitment extends to being a registered voter, anti-racist, and feminist. Matthew values his time and is intentional about his business plan and systems, focusing on providing quality mental health services to his clients.
• Topics Covered:
  The episode covers various topics, including Matthew’s personal and professional journey, the challenges faced by new dads, the concept of the “Man Box,” and the importance of setting therapeutic goals. There will be insights into Matthew’s three-stage approach to therapy, involving learning, getting to the heart of the issues, and achieving a return on investment. The episode covers practical aspects of running a counseling business, such as billing, online presence, and the decision-making process for in-network or out-of-network services. Overall, the episode provides a comprehensive look at the dynamic intersection of counseling, business, and personal growth.

Episode Transcript

Matthew Braman: At that point, I’m getting them to really step outside of the present moment. So I start with a long-time vision, way outside of the here and now, and depending on the client or the situation, sometimes I might ask something about five years from now, how would you want your spouse or your partner to describe their relationship with you? I’ll start to hear and understand their vision as they describe it. So, that becomes this goal that they have for themselves in their life. From there, I start asking questions like, what are some of the barriers or what kind of factors might constrain or get in the way of that vision?

Becky Coplen: Welcome to Mastering Counseling, the weekly business show for counselors. I’m your host, Becky Coplen. I’ve spent 20 years working in education in the role of both teacher and school counselor. Each episode will be exploring what it takes to thrive as a counseling business owner. From interviews with successful entrepreneurial counselors to conversations with industry leaders on trends and the next generation of counseling services, to discussions with tech executives whose innovations are reshaping counseling services. If it impacts counseling, we cover it on mastering counseling. Today, we’re very excited to have Matthew Braman on our show of mastering counseling. He is the esteemed founder and CEO and therapist of Verve Psychotherapy. Thanks for being here today, Matthew.

Matthew Braman: Thank you. Thanks for having me. It’s a pleasure to be with you.

Becky Coplen: So glad to talk. And it’s always fun to meet people around the country. He is on the East Coast, but we found out that he grew up just an hour away from where I am in Michigan. So welcome back to the meeting.

Matthew Braman: It’s good to be with a fellow Michigander here.

Becky Coplen: Yes, so sure. All right, let’s hear about Verve Psychotherapy. You have been working in this industry for at least a decade. Why don’t you go back to the beginning and tell us what inspired you to begin this, especially with a focus on new dads and the demographic of men?

Matthew Braman: So, yeah, it’s been a better part of a decade, a little bit more than that. But, my private practice journey has taken shape over the past two and a half years. And like you say, going back to the beginning, it all got started with a bit of a rough time, a rough patch where I was on my way into my freshman year of college and just not really prepared, not serious about studying, and I found myself a lot more interested in socializing and just being in a new space with a lot of new people and partying. I never really made too much class. So, I actually had a big kind of fall from grace with a 0.0-grade point average at the end of my very first semester of freshman year in college. A bit of a rock bottom, with a lot of big, heavy feelings, a lot of self-reflection, and conversations with my family and people around me. So, I had to make some decisions and sort out what I was going to do from there. So I found my way into community college at Washtenaw Community College, and taking a lot of Psychology courses had this small vision of showing up, maybe as a psychologist and working with teens and young adults, maybe in a vulnerable place, like I was going into freshman year and trying to be that support person for them. So, that put me on a path of abnormal psych and counseling psychology and social psychology, I was just very interested in all of that. I found my way to making the transition to Eastern Michigan University, where I was encouraged to check out a social work program. And it was the discussion like, “Hey, if you want to work in counseling, you can take a social work degree and you won’t have to be so far, maybe student debt by taking years and years of schooling in a counseling program for psychology”. So I found my way into an internship working for the Michigan Prisoner Reentry Program out of Catholic Social Services of Washtenaw County, and I definitely connected with that work. I ended up taking an additional year to work in that program as a contractor after I graduated with my Bachelor of Social Work degree. So during that gap year, I was looking at grad schools and master’s of social work programs. I found several options, and I don’t know how, but I said no to the University of Michigan. I could have just enjoyed another year or two living with family and saving money and having a really great education with the University of Michigan. But I ended up pursuing a master’s of Social Work degree at New York University School of Silver, School of Social Work. Through there I worked in a juvenile justice program with my internship and made a lot of really great connections and relationships, and had really great clinical experience through NYU’s program. I took my first job at New York Psychotherapy and Counseling Center, I was working in their Child and Family Mental Health Clinic in Bushwick, Brooklyn, NY, PCC they’re one of the largest behavioral health providers in New York City. In that experience, I worked for a solid six, almost seven years. In the last two of that, two years of that chapter, I was working as a clinical supervisor, working with many licensed mental health clinicians and counselors and marriage and family therapists and supervising their work. I had bounced around and moved a few times, followed my wife’s career and her training program. We moved to Atlanta, Georgia, and I got connected, working for a private group practice and worked with all adults. But it definitely showed me the kind of world of private practice and really helped support me and my vision. Going into solo practice, that was a really great experience, and while I was working there, I also worked part-time with the Adolescent Crisis Stabilization Unit. That was generally like a community-based service organization. Through the state of Georgia in a public-private partnership with a nonprofit. But there was a lot of really great experience working directly with adolescents. But I also had a role in the responsibility of coordinating a family care and family program. So, I had a lot of interactions with parents and then supporting their youth and their youth transition back into the community after inpatient treatment, and then combined all of that with my child and family therapy experience at New York Psychotherapy, where I was working with a lot of parents and family therapy, and especially for individual adult therapy. A lot of men were interested to work with me, as I’m a guy now working on men’s issues. For some men might be more comfortable working with a male therapist. In and around the time that I was planning my solo practice, I just was also going through a personal transition, welcoming my first child with my wife, and we were becoming parents and I was becoming a new dad, but I noticed there was ample and plethora of support available for new moms, and I think I noticed a bit of a gap where new dads and paternal mental health was maybe lacking in the available support. So, I just decided to position myself as a therapist specializing in working with men and new dads and their partners.

Becky Coplen: Oh, what a well-rounded story. I love how your whole life experience has led you to this. I mean, there are programs for new moms at every corner, church, any location, but new dads, I think it’s awesome that you have taken this route. And I’m maybe we’ll get into this more, but I feel like maybe you’re working with a lot of people as adolescents, and maybe your experience of going from high school to college, as you mentioned, 0.0. Thank you for admitting that. And using all of that to lead you where you are today. So let’s go into Verse Psychotherapy and talk more specifically about the practice. You show a culture of empathy and make people feel comfortable. I think you’ll get into this because when I was looking at your LinkedIn and website, there’s a lot about, I think, the man box and maybe just even helping men feel comfortable to get help and support and coaching and therapy.

Matthew Braman: I think, I mean, definitely a privilege. Like, I had a solid 12 months or so of time to be able to plan and prepare for my transition into solo private practice. So, I had a lot of conversations with colleagues and tried to just map out a vision for myself and what I wanted my practice to become. And so I definitely spent time thinking about branding and thinking about working with an ideal client and working with a business plan that included a value structure and a mission statement and a vision and all of that. So, at the early phase, I was very much interested in trying to just get the ball running and get on the ground and start building up a group of clients to work with. I made a decision to make sure that I was going to keep my practice accessible and keep it something that would hopefully align and fit with the ideal client, and something that men would feel comfortable reaching out to me. So I’ve had to do a lot of deep dive into different resources and along the way, especially in the sorts of topics on men and masculinities. Tony Porter, he is a founder or co-founder of an organization called A Call to Men, and it’s really an organization trying to lift men up and lift the community around men up, focused on nonviolence and trying to reduce gender-based violence. So the Man Box is basically, a concept and terms coined by that organization, a call to men. It’s generally a concept and like I said, a box that men are put into and as a product of their like cultural, social conditioning and programming and training as boys who become men. And it’s full of rules and it’s very oppressive. If you step outside of the man box quote, then you’re policed for any kind of violations, which generally the rules are that you have to be strong and tough and don’t show emotion and be the kind of provider and be the protector. There are all these kinds of stereotypical concepts of men. So, I think therapy and emotions, it’s maybe feminized and therefore devalued and not a part of many young boys and teen boys and male experiences growing up. So, I think that trend has shifted. Or that stereotype typical trend has been shifting over the past decades, but it’s rooted in patriarchy and rooted in that kind of traditional form of masculinity that really victimizes and does a big disservice to not just men, but anyone and everyone. So, in my vision for my practice, I wanted to make sure that I was able to normalize and validate men and their emotional relational lives. In my branding, deciding on a name for my practice and picking a verb as like enthusiasm and spirit, trying to empower all of that in men, that’s a collection of thoughts and ideas I have on all of that.

Becky Coplen: Yeah, I have four of my own kids, two of which are boys. So I appreciate the work that you’re talking about because there are a lot of stereotypes and even just a lot of band bashing all around. It can definitely be better and I’m glad you’re providing that space. I would think, too, that I feel like you are very strong on who you want to help. So, I’m imagining maybe sometimes you have to say no to people because you’re like, “I may not be the right fit. I’m really trying to work on this demographic”. Have you found that to be the case yet, or No?

Matthew Braman: I’d say yes, especially in the past year and a half when I’ve found a lot more stability in my practice. That first, like 6 to 12 months, it’s, uh, a bit of a pressure to get the ball rolling and get things stabilized. I think there are statistics about like, small businesses in general and even like in the mental health world of private practice, like it can be very challenging to refer clients out appropriately because you as a solo practitioner, want to keep the lights on and pay your bills and anybody coming to you ready to pay for therapy, or maybe in a position of just saying yes to everyone. So over time, I’ve been able to stabilize things, and I’ve definitely found some solid success within the past year and a half of my two-and-a-half-year practice journey. But yeah, I’ve had to reconcile for myself that I’m not meant to be everyone’s therapist. And I think helping people in this way, where I can be a bit more selective about who I work with and who I can be a good fit to work with. That sort of approach, I think ultimately benefits my clients. It benefits me as a therapist and especially supports my own, like self-care and work-life balance. I mean, one thing I wanted to prevent going into solo private practice was being overworked and underpaid, just as I maybe have experienced in past positions and chapters in my career. And so I really wanted to make sure that my practice would work for me and my family. I know, especially in the past two and a half years. But even before that, I think I do my best work as a therapist. When I’m working with clients who I know I can relate with and who I know I can really understand and see their pain points and really offer something to give them that roadmap and vision towards whatever their therapy goals might be. But of course, I’ve got maybe a bit of my kind of mindful masculinity agenda and the message that I would like to be able to share about men and masculinity and fatherhood, for sure. Relationships in general.

Becky Coplen: Very cool. When you do accept a client and you feel that it is a good match. What are some of the ways that you foster a partnership between you and your clients, and helping them to achieve that emotional well-being and even resilience, as especially becoming a new parent is so life-changing and just helping them navigate day-to-day? Can you talk about some of those specifics in that life transition, and what might take place in your sessions?

Matthew Braman: Coming from a couple of different angles, as part of my master’s program, Master of Social Work program internship, I was exposed to and trained with solution what’s called solution-based casework, which has a lot of grounding in solution-focused therapy. And in general, I think that has helped me in formulating and conceptualizing my approach for working with men. I take a look at three stages and phases of therapy, and I’m open in my messaging, on my website, my social media and my phone consultations with new clients that there’s a beginning, a middle, and an end to therapy. Just zoom out, very kind of existential view on life in general and confronting the clock of time and trying to make sure that we are intentional with our time. And that first stage and phase is all about learning. The second stage is getting to the heart of it. The third stage and phase I see is like a return on investment. That’s when clients are ready to graduate and discharge and come to an end with therapy. So, I’m getting started with clients with this vision in mind and this roadmap in mind, where on the Arc and on the whole of therapy, I hope to navigate and guide clients through each of those stages and phases, which that can even show up within a therapy hour. I try to pay attention to how we get started, what goes on in the middle, and how we come to a close and end our time together each and every session, getting that return on investment. So, one of the big questions I try to ask about, or one of the kinds of concepts I tried to achieve with my clients early on, is consensus. Getting a consensus about what are the specific kinds of problems or situations we’re going to work with and trying to treat through therapy. Once I have that kind of consensus, then I can start to guide people into that, continuing through that assessment and learning phase along the way, I’m building rapport and I’m trying to help my clients take things seriously without taking ourselves so seriously in a way. Like, sometimes there needs to be some room for humor and slowing things down, and we’re having a chance to slow down and really capture the energy of our therapeutic relationships. That’s going to help drive the work and energize whichever kind of approach to treatment that I’m working with. I generally try to offer a menu of different treatment options, and I think that for myself, having flexibility and being able to integrate the treasure of different types of therapy really benefits my clients. I think a lot of emotion-focused and mindfulness-based approaches, definitely attachment-based approaches. And I think also some of those solution-focused and more practical, like, skill-building approaches to treatment can really benefit, especially men particularly. I like to introduce early on in my work dialectical Behavior therapy. I think, for many men, they connect with the concept of skills as tools, and we’re adding tools to their toolbox. I’ve got plenty of experience in coaching, DBT and group therapy, and especially working with adolescents who are at risk of suicide or violence and substance use and psychosis and all these kinds of severe mental health experiences. Especially if I’m helping men see that there’s a roadmap, there’s a vision, there’s a purpose and meaning behind our work. I’ve got that consensus. We’re learning together in real-time. We’re getting to the heart of it. I speak with a lot of men about how heart work is hard work, and that kind of mindfulness-based approaches can help guide us and navigate to a lot more of that somatic work where a lot of cognitive forms of treatment are very cerebral, like up here in our brain. So I say we’re going to use our brain to change our brain, speak about neuroscience and how we’re untangling old behaviors in those neural pathways and trying to just create new neural pathways. These mindfulness-based tools and these attachment-based sorts of emotional, relational ways of working, are all going to hopefully allow these men and these new dads to feel more calm, more confident, more compassionate, and more connected in their emotional, relational lives.

Becky Coplen: This episode is brought to you by mastersincounseling.org if you’re considering enrolling in a master’s level counseling program to further your career, visit mastersincounseling.org to compare school options via our search tool that allows you to sort by specific degree types, tuition, our costs, online flexibility, and more. Can you talk about some specific case studies? Obviously not mentioning names of some clients, that you’ve seen some positive outcomes and success in their lives that you would want to share?

Matthew Braman: There are several that come to mind. Of course, over a decade, you end up working with thousands and thousands of people and have tens of thousands of clinical hours and work as a therapist. I’ll speak to one particular experience I had working with a middle-aged man in his early 30s mid 30s and who became a father for the first time and had a bit of adjustment stress, of course, as any new parent would. But there were some challenges with being able to hold and soothe their baby and being able to navigate the stress of like, sleep deprivation when he and his wife are just having a really hard time because their baby was not sleeping, or sometimes just having trouble with feeding and trying to navigate this new triad, like this triangle relationship between the three of them, but also the marital relationship and the kind of stress that shows up when we are sleep deprived and vulnerable, and maybe not moving around or exercising as much and missing out on some of that kind of stress management opportunity. The self-care just takes a back seat.

Becky Coplen: I’m sure you talk about sleep a ton with the new dads. That word must be a lot.

Matthew Braman: Absolutely it does, especially for this particular client. At that time, they were back to work, so they were working from home and having a hard time getting through, maybe like a 12, 15 hour workday, their workday, and stepping into another room of the house and turning off their work had when they need to put on their dad hat or their husband hat, and just carrying some of that work stress, or carrying some of that work burden into the family space and the energy and kind of consequence of all of that. We definitely over, I want to say like a solid like at least nine, ten months of working with each other, able to turn some negatives into a few positives and able to really slow down and help this client discover different parts of themself. And I’m a big fan of like, internal family systems therapy, and there’s a solid maybe nine, ten months of work where we were able to really slow down and take a long, close look at the so many different parts of my client. I very much enjoy working with internal family systems therapy and doing that kind of part of work. So, he was able to find and recognize different parts of himself, different parts of his wife, and sometimes just different parts of his life in general. And many of these parts might have been in conflict with each other, and we find ways to see and witness them and maybe redo or go back and be that comforting self-parent for those parts, really doing some of that kind of unburdening work where these parts are now hopefully able to feel lighter and feel more seen, heard and understood and find some harmony between them, and especially the moments where we are feeling exhausted and tired and vulnerable and maybe not well taken care of for our own self. That’s where we start to find maybe some irritation and frustration and those moments in conflict with our partner like, he was able to, and just take a step back and really see, like how he was sometimes contributing to his own stress levels or how he was contributing to his own relational ruptures or conflict. And I think over time, he was able to see that he was dancing with his partner in a way that was just not always aligned with their preferences, and sometimes being a bit too quick to shut down his partner, or a bit too quick to withdraw and shut down or start maybe stonewalling this partner. So, really trying to find some different angles to connect with some DBT skills and finding also, some insights and understanding about relationship dynamics and distress cycles, and how the more he did something, the more his wife did something, or the more his wife did something, the more he did something. And that kind of relationship dance. And like EFT or Emotionally Focused Therapy tango, how he really had the ability and was able to take some of his experience in therapy and sprinkle it into his day-to-day life and really changed the way he was dancing with his wife and he was able to okay, if they did experience some kind of rupture or conflict, they were able to see and recognize the cycle and, and make a repair attempt much more quickly and that sort of stuff, it has a huge impact overall for the child, for the family as a whole, for my. I in sense of self and self-esteem and for his wife. And it’s just fascinating to me to visualize the kind of ripple effect that has on families and communities.

Becky Coplen: I love the metaphor of the ‘dance’ or the ‘tango’. When we’ve had another marriage therapist on here, she referenced that a whole lot, and it’s a really great metaphor for people to see how the dance is going basically. You’ve mentioned it a little bit and we’ve talked definitely about roadmaps, but in thinking about timelines, when you work with a client, what are some maybe set goals that you try to encourage them to make? Do they make short-term goals and long-term goals, or how does that all work itself out with a client?

Matthew Braman: One common way that I approach goal planning, and this shows up very early on in. Maybe sometimes in the first session, maybe the second or third session. It comes from a type of therapy approach, what’s called collaborative therapy with multi-stressed families. And I’ll ask clients like, can we especially clients who are parents and they have children no matter their age, I’ll say 20 years from now, I just want you to imagine that I’m having a chance to talk with your adult son or your adult daughter, and I’m asking them about their childhood and how they would describe their childhood and the role that you played in it. How would you want and how would you prefer them to answer a question like that? So at that point, I’m getting them to really step outside of the present moment. We keep one foot here in the present. We kick another foot way down into the future. So I start with a long-term vision, way outside of the here and now, and depending on the client or the situation, sometimes I might ask like something about five years from now and maybe they don’t have children, so I’ll ask them about like five years from now. How would you want your spouse or your partner to describe their relationship with you? So I’ll start to hear and understand their vision as they describe it. So that becomes this goal that they have for themselves in their life. Then from there, I start asking questions, okay, like, what are some of the barriers or what kind of factors might constrain or get in the way of that vision, right? So, we start talking about poor time management, poor self-care, not enough stress management or just whatever is going on. Maybe it’s like something getting in the way of that vision. Also, steer the conversation towards support and strengths and saying, okay. Here are the barriers. We understand that. Now let’s talk about what’s going to support and get you closer to that vision. So I always try to make a plug. If they don’t say it out loud like you’re doing your therapy push-ups, right? Like, let’s keep doing the therapy push-ups because that’s going to help get you a little bit closer along the way. That’s definitely a support. So we’ve identified a vision. We’ve identified a list of barriers and supports to factor into this vision. And then I dial it back more to the present time and talk with people about the next steps like say for example, a recent client who I’m working with, they’ve had a really hard time with just the AM and PM routines and trying to get their young kids out the door for on their way to school and daycare. Then maybe you’ve got an hour in the morning and kids get home and you’ve got maybe 1 or 2 or three hours in the evening before bedtime. Kids want to play. Maybe some of the barriers to that long-term vision where a father really wants their children to see them as always supportive and always just like lifting them up. So, now we’ve understood that maybe some of those frustrating moments where we’re losing our cool as a dad, it’s not really helping that long-term vision. So, in these next steps, we have to start working on emotion regulation and distress tolerance, or how we can cope with emotional and relational life in a way that you prefer, and that fits with that long-term vision based on your values and what’s important to you. So from there, I might jump into a bit of a coaching role and trying to teach specific techniques or skills or tools. But certainly, I always try to position my client as someone who knows themselves best. So I ask them for exceptions to problems, which is a very solution-focused therapy way of working. You’ve gotten mad before what worked? How did you deal with anger then? Or we try to also leverage consequences like, okay, there’s the vision. Like what happens if nothing changes and do some motivational interviewing around some of the biggest risks or worst-case scenarios if things stay the same, and helping people really overcome denial and work through that ambivalence so that they can really see the kind of ripple effect that their everyday life has on that future vision for their children.

Becky Coplen: What a powerful question to ask people about what they want to see in the future, and then break it down. That really helps us see the work that you’re doing. Let’s just shift a little bit to the business side of your practice. And what are some of the tools you might want to give to future therapists or counselors in regard to business parts of billing? Maybe online presence,  being out in the community. Talk about that aspect of the practice, which I didn’t see that or not. I don’t know if you handle a lot of that or if you outsource that part of it.

Matthew Braman: So my practice is just me, I’m doing everything. So I’ll tell you one thing that you probably won’t find, or therapists might not find out there in the mental health world. And like the kind of private practice building coaching space, something that worked very well, I think, for myself was I created a Google doc. As soon as I knew that I wanted to start planning my practice, I started harvesting resources and links and different private practice-building resources. I had different sections, so I had a section on billing, I had a section on finances, I had a section on electronic health records. And I would along the way find myself Google searching or just finding out about different resources or things that I knew I would want to pay attention to. So, for a long time, I was generating this, basically like a Google doc of resources, and maybe I wasn’t ready to pay attention to website-building resources, but I was coming in contact with them so I would save them for myself. So that way, later on, I could definitely refer back to it. That’s something that I still, even to this day, refer back to. That’s something, like I said personally, that helped me was just to have a space where I could find resources, hold on to them and refer back to them over time. One thing for me that’s my practice is it’s an online mental health practice. I’m licensed in four states. I’m only virtual or telehealth, I do not have an office space for in-person treatment. I’ve also made the decision to work as a private pay or out-of-network provider, and I have a sliding scale for my private pay clients if they’re opting out of insurance and then out-of-network clients, I’m generating and providing monthly super bills. One thing, especially for out-of-network clients that has helped. I have a paid monthly subscription through what’s called Nirvana Health, and through that subscription, I have access to offer my clients. They’re out-of-network reimbursement calculators, so I’ve got it all set up. Clients can go through and put in a little bit of their health insurance plan information, like an ID or group number. They can select my intake appointment, CPT billing code or my 45-minute, 53-minute sessions or a couple’s therapy CPT code, and it will generate an estimate for their out-of-network benefits. So I think especially that I’m not an in-network provider. Many people, of course, understandably so, are seeking therapy and trying to use insurance to cover the cost of that treatment. So as an out-of-network provider, I think that’s one thing that helps clients just visualize what they can estimate for their reimbursement. Also, I have a script of questions on my website where out-of-network clients can use the script, and calling their insurance company to verify their out-of-network benefits. I have a sliding scale and I work as an open path therapist, so I mentioned earlier in our conversation, I do want to make access to services and treatment with me accessible and in general. I also have a decade of experience and training and and have taken advanced training and, you know, also trying to achieve a work-life balance that supports me and my family. So, I’ve tried to do a lot of my own money mindset work, formulate a fee that I believe is aligned with that usual and customary rate for the markets in the states where I serve clients, but also doesn’t make it too inaccessible. And like I said, I’ll slide my fee to a lower fee if needed and work through maybe annual or semiannual fee increases along the way. Yeah, these are a few thoughts coming up for me, but I think perfectionism is a myth. So, maybe there’s that pressure. Of course, you need clients as a therapist starting out, and you need to generate income, but you don’t have to do everything all at once, and you don’t have to do everything to a perfect standard. Sometimes you just have to be. It doesn’t have to be perfect, and you just got to put it out there and let it be like a living, breathing kind of work in progress over time. So like, as far as social media goes, I’m involved in active with my social media, but I try not to let it dominate or overwhelm or take up my time. Um, that’s I think maybe one area, uh, and along with maybe like the SEO, like the kind of website copywriting sort of stuff, if I was to outsource or I haven’t yet, and maybe I will in the future. But if I was to hire some support and help that, those would probably be areas that I would focus on.

Becky Coplen: I love that you have the script for your clients to talk to insurance agencies because I think a lot of people working with insurance, whether medical, for therapy, it’s often a change. So, I think giving people the words to know how to explain exactly what they’re getting, what they need and how that translates is huge. So, that’s a really good detail that you shared. And you touched on this a little bit like as on the business side and looking into maybe some help with SEO or maybe more or less social media. I mean, it’s all relative, right? You may not you may have enough clients that you’re like, why do I need to do this? But if you ever did, in the future, but just share with us as far as the whole practice goes, what do you see in your roadmap in the next few years that might change or you’re working on? Or do you feel like staying status quo might be the path for you in the next five years?

Matthew Braman: I think for me personally, I had a really important role model. The owner of the group practice who I worked for. They had established themselves in a solo private practice and then scaled their business into a group practice. I definitely have that vision for my own practice. It’s not yet being an option for me to pursue. Of course, that option has been on the table, but me personally, I really just wanted to get into like that first year, second year, and now two and a half years in. And so I’m flirting with that third year, it’s coming up. I think at some point in time I’ll, like you say, maybe within the next five years, I would very much like to be scaling my business into a group practice and hiring clinical associates like staff therapists. I think for me, also, for the past few months, I was doing the trainings and taking the exam for the Postpartum Support International Perinatal Mental Health certification and I joined PSI as a member, I joined a few other professional membership groups that, along with PSI, I joined a local regional group where I am in the Baltimore area called the Baltimore Mental Health, Perinatal Mental Health Professional Study Group. I also joined the American Psychological Association’s Division 51, which is the APA Society for the Study of Psychological or the what is it society for the Psychological Study of Men and Masculinities. And with PSI with this Baltimore Perinatal Mental Health study, with this APA Division 51, I’d very much like to and see myself getting active in those membership groups. And I’ve made some connections already in those groups where I’m talking with other providers or advisory board members or just people who want to focus on different initiatives. So, whether that shows up in the form of like public speaking or speaking engagements or some kind of mental health trainings for mental health providers, or educating the public and getting a message out there, whether it’s through podcasting or blogging or media interviews and features and things like that, I very much have interest in that space. And so I think it might align and fit where if I’m scaling the business into a group practice, maybe I can reduce some of my one-on-one clinical work and focus and attention and energy and those initiatives or in those spaces. One, for example, that’s preliminary, is an anti-racism task force in the APA Division 51 that’s in like a preliminary kind of budget approval process. And they’re trying to sort out what it’s actually going to become and look like. But maybe I get involved and have some kind of role and way to contribute in that particular initiative, that’s one that comes to mind. That’s very new and recent. So with the paternal mental health side of things, I’d very much love to see more support overall and in general. So I’m always networking with a lot of niche-aligned therapists, whether they work with new moms or new dads, but trying to get the message and promote that message and reduce stigma and try to really just expand the available support for communities and all these sorts of things come up for me, and they’re really important to me.

Becky Coplen: That was so many things. I love it and just the ‘postpartum’. I have to think there’s not a whole lot of you in have an expertise in postpartum for men, but it is such a big transition in life. So I’m glad you’re doing that work and I’m sure it will grow. One thing I did want to mention, and I think then we’ll close out. But you’re living in the Baltimore area and your license in four states. Which states were those again?

Matthew Braman: So, in New York. I spent the largest chunk of my career there in New York. And also I moved to Georgia, had to get licensed in Georgia. I ended up moving back to New York for another year, and then my wife and I moved to the Baltimore area. She took a. A job in Baltimore, so I had to get licensed in Maryland. Along the way, I wanted to maintain continuity of care for a client who was living in New York but often attending university in Connecticut. I got licensed in the state of Connecticut. Along the way, I’ve connected with many clients in the state of Connecticut and networked and had to really learn a lot about the state. And so, yeah, between these four states, that’s where I’m licensed.

Becky Coplen: All right. Yeah, that’s so interesting. With so much telehealth and people being able to help across state lines. And I just love knowing the ins and outs too. I’m sure the licens’ requirements vary even amongst those for. Do you find that?

Matthew Braman: They do a little bit. One thing I think New York State specifically, they’re generally up there with California’s two of the most regulated states for licensed providers and licensed professionals, and I think I see this coming into play with, like, the kind of national conversation of a licensing compact agreement like there is, say, for example, for CIPAC the psychologists and the Mental Health Counseling or American Counseling Association Compact. So, social work is, I think maybe like in that direction, but having a hard time, especially with the state of New York getting on board, they’ve just got a lot of unanswered questions. I know that conversation is ongoing, but I believe it would be nice to expand access to treatment for, I think just looking at like the number of licensed mental health professionals in this country compared to population, I think it was like kind of February 2021, research came out that like it had been 1 in 10 American adults that were reporting symptoms of like mental health symptoms and like anxiety, depression, and like February 2021 was like 4 in 10 adults. And postpartum stuff is 1 in 7 mothers and 1 in 10 dads we need. I think, very much to be expanding access to treatment, reducing stigma and trying to connect more people with mental health support.

Becky Coplen: For sure. Yeah, the statistics keep rising and the need for help is growing. And yeah, it’s just, it’s just a big time for mental health. So thank you so much for being here. I am really, truly impressed by your practice and the focus that you have. I think it’s much needed, and I’m sure many of the spouses are very grateful when the men want to reach out and get support for such a transformative time. Thank you so much for being here. To our listeners, Mastering Counseling, I hope that you will stick with us, comment on this, reach out to the people that we’ve interviewed, explore their websites, and just let us know what you’re looking for. We look forward to the future of more podcasts and episodes as we talk about the business side of counseling and the work that therapists are doing all around the country. Uh, we wish you a beautiful day, and thank you for tuning in. Take care. You’ve been listening to the Mastering Counseling podcast by mastersincounseling.org. Join us again next episode as we explore what it takes to be a business success in the counseling industry.