Mastering Minds and Maximizing Performance with Thad Frye of Brainspotting Ep.58

Episode Overview

• Episode Topic:
  In this episode of Mastering Counseling, Thad Frye digs into the world of Brainspotting and its application in counseling and performance coaching. He shares insights into the origins of brain spotting, its evolution over the past two decades, and its effectiveness in addressing various mental health issues, including trauma and performance anxiety. Listeners will gain a deeper understanding of this innovative therapeutic approach and its potential impact on personal growth and athletic performance.
  
• Lessons You’ll Learn:
  Listeners can expect to learn about the fundamentals of Brainspotting, including how it differs from traditional therapeutic modalities like cognitive behavioral therapy (CBT) and eye movement desensitization and reprocessing (EMDR). Thad discusses the importance of connecting with the body’s sensations and emotions to process trauma and enhance emotional regulation. Moreover, he shares practical techniques and strategies for integrating brain spotting into counseling sessions and performance coaching sessions, empowering listeners to explore new avenues for personal healing and athletic success.
• About Our Guest:
  Thad Frye is a counselor and performance coach with expertise in Brainspotting. He is the founder of Thad Frye Counseling and Coaching, where he helps clients navigate through various mental health challenges and optimize their performance in sports and music. Thad is also affiliated with the Rocky Mountain Brain Spotting Institute, where he volunteers his time to advance the practice of brain spotting through training and education.
  
• Topics Covered:
  During the episode, Thad covers a wide range of topics related to brain spotting, including its origins and development, its application in trauma therapy and performance coaching, and its integration into traditional counseling practices. He shares personal anecdotes and experiences to illustrate the effectiveness of brain spotting in helping clients overcome mental blocks, traumas, and performance anxiety. Additionally, Thad discusses the challenges he faced in introducing brain spotting to clients and highlights the growing demand for alternative therapeutic modalities in the mental health and sports industry.

Episode Transcript

Becky Coplen: Thanks so much. Returning to the Mastering Counseling podcast today, we are super excited to talk to Thad Frey, who has many things going on in the mental health world. He is an expert in the psychotherapy of brain spotting.  He has his own practice called Thad Frye Counseling. And also out of that, a coaching, um, service, particularly for high performance, um, athletes and I think musicians. Welcome to the show today then.

Thad Frye: You so much, Becky, I’m excited to be here with you.

Becky Coplen: We are really excited to hear what you have to talk about and all the ways that you are working out in Colorado. I also want to mention too, he works for a nonprofit, the Rocky Mountain Brain Spotting Institute, Which is some extra volunteer work, but it’s all linked together. Why don’t we help first understand what brain spotting is and how you came to be involved in it?

Thad Frye: Awesome. I love talking about brain spotting. if you were here, she’d say that guy talks about it too much as it is. So happy to share it with your audience. The hopefully long and short of it is that it came out of eMDR, Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing and probably coupled in a little bit with Somatic Experiencing. Doctor David Grand out of New York, was an eMDR therapist who is an eMDR consultant. He wrote a book on it.  He was a trainer.  His world was all about eMDR. And he was actually working with a skater, an ice skater,  who was working on some performance issues, when he actually kind of discovered it. Within eMDR, usually people go back and forth between bilateral points with their finger and have the person notice memories or body sensations and have their eyes go between those two points. And as he was going across that person’s field of vision, he noticed her eyes wobble and he said something told him to stay in that position. A fixed eye position, just one eye position looking at it. And she was able to process and access all these older traumas and these body sensations and really helped her a lot. So much so that she called him the next day and said she was able to do this triple loop. He knew obviously there was something to it. And a lot of his clients were also other therapists.  they started utilizing this new concept of brainspotting, and it just kind of grew out of that.  but just to kind of bring you into whether I’m working with an athlete, I might go to their house or I sometimes go to their team,  to their facility, or if I’m with a,  counseling client online, the basics of it is that just like in cognitive work, I’m going to ask you what you want to work on.

Thad Frye: So what? What’s bringing you in today? What is more than likely making you feel dysregulated at some level? That’s why usually people are coming in. Something’s not feeling right. They might have tried to do other things, but they need some assistance. Where is that activation? So as you tell me about x, y, z issue, where are you noticing that in your body, as you’re telling me about that difficulty you’re having with your partner?  most people can find that. usually we talk about their stomach, their chest, their solar plexus throat. Where is that tenseness or where are you feeling anxiety or the fluttering of butterflies? And then they help me as the therapist, uh, helps them find, again a fixed eye position. I go across their field of vision while they’re noticing that feeling in their body. we find one where I usually notice reflexes. So their limbic brain is what we’re working with. Their limbic brain is telling me something is here, and that’s why they’re having a fluttering of eyes, or they’re swallowing or they’re moving in their seats. Sometimes they move their head back. That’s telling me information to stop being curious with them and allow them to go in and see what comes up for them, either emotionally, somatically or cognitively. So that’s a quick snapshot of what that looks like, right?

Becky Coplen: Well, that is so fascinating. And we’ve talked about eMDR and here before not as much on brain spotting. Thank you for giving us a good summary of that work. Really relatively new compared to a lot of other methods. Right?

Thad Frye: Yeah. So we actually just hit our 20 year anniversary, this past summer, and we had a little celebration all across the world because,  but those first 3 to 5 years, it was definitely very small and. It really took off after the pandemic because we could do so much training online, so it really opened up the field. I was lucky enough to get trained here in Boulder, Colorado, which was a hub. It still is, but was a hub. And so we got a lot more training in person, but now it’s really blown up. So these last five, five years it’s really taken off. Okay.

Becky Coplen: And why do you say why do you think it blew up so much after the pandemic? Like my one thought is, were there so many disappointments, even for high level athletes of things being canceled, maybe less training? Is that what it was or how do you see it?

Thad Frye: It’s a really good question. I think the number one thing would be access. So if I’m not having to fly somewhere and pay for everything, I think that allows people to jump on in their home. And after a long week of working, you know, Monday through Thursday, the training is three days, Friday, Saturday, Sunday, usually. but as you were speaking to, the need obviously blew up in our clients. My practice has been full for a long time. I’m sure many people listening to this have that as well, which is awesome. But a lot of us wanted tools that went beyond just the cognitive. Again, I use cognitive pieces in my work. I’m nothing wrong with that. But so much about it is that dysregulated feeling in our body, in the way that our prefrontal cortex works. Our thinking brain doesn’t usually solve that feeling. I think people are looking for other modalities that work with the body more.

Becky Coplen: Yeah, We’re seeing so much the greater the science in biology, the more it’s affecting everyone’s work, which is really cool and hopefully super helpful to so many clients. Can you talk a little bit about your personal experience and how it led you down this path?

Thad Frye: I really appreciate that. So let’s see, again, the briefer version would be that I worked in hospice for a long time, almost 20 years collectively,  both in Austin, Texas, where I went to graduate school and then back here in Colorado, where I’m from. I was talking to a good friend who is a social worker at the hospice I worked at. She had had a major loss in her family, sudden loss. And she had been asking her about modalities. I had actually been looking at eMDR, somatic experiencing, something that, again, would get me into the body more into that limbic part of the brain. And she said, there was this thing called brainspotting that she did that really made it so that it wasn’t easy, obviously, to deal with what she’d had, that loss, but that it made it so that it was easier. And so I thought, well, that’s an interesting name, a fascinating name. I found out that there was a training right down the road that was coming up in about a month.  The lady who now is a good friend of mine, but was the lead us trainer, her name is Doctor Pi Frye. she spells it differently f r e.  I took that as a sign I should go get trained. I went into it not knowing a heck of a lot. got to learn about the science behind it. They did a demo. Pi did a demo with one of the therapists. I watched it, I thought it was fascinating, but I also was very skeptical, if I’m being honest.

Thad Frye: And then we broke up in dyads where we tried it out with another therapist, where they were clients, and then they turned into the therapist, worked with us. And I’ll tell you, I’ve said this to other people as well when it first happened. I’m looking at the end of this pointer, the stick, while I’m noticing. I was working when my sister passed away.  She’s about five years younger than me. Passed away when I was 21. She was 16. I thought, hey, I’ve done a lot of grief work. Might as well try this out. At a deeper level. And right at first I heard people around me who were also doing their demos. They were crying, they were having these big emotive moments,  I was having nothing. And I thought, oh my gosh, maybe I’m just going to make this up and act like  I don’t ruin this other therapist’s view of this. But I thought, nope, I’m just going to go into my feelings. And long story short, I started to have all these tingling sensations run up my arm. I started to emote and not have a clear picture of why I was having these deep, deep emotions.  I noticed that it kept with me for the next 24 hours.  Basically I was hooked after that, at least I noticed that something was going deeper and that I was starting to understand myself at a deeper level.

Becky Coplen: Yeah. Wow. Thank you for sharing.  that personal experience. I’m sorry about your sister.  but as many of our guests share, it’s often something going on in their own lives that causes them to search. Into a new type of therapy or a way to help people. So for sure,  with it being a newer type of strategy and therapy, have there been challenges along the way? I guess I’m also thinking that your practice is full, but do clients come to you because of the brainspotting use, or do they just come to you and then you introduce it? That was like three questions in one. So however you want to take it.

Thad Frye: I appreciate all that. I should say yes, my practice is definitely full, but because of the work I do with athletes, it tends to be shorter term because it’s in between seasons or during a season, and we work together in intensive ways.  I always keep that door open. And if,  when people graduate from the work they do with me, I have openings down the line or I refer people out because I know a lot of brainspotting is.  Let’s look back at your question. I think you nailed it on the head when I first got trained about seven years ago, and I was trying to tell people about Brainspotting, most people kind of either shook their head like, I don’t know what you’re talking about. somebody might say, I’ve heard of that, but tell me more about it. Right? Did have that inquisitive look.  I ended up doing a lot of talking. And as I’ve told many people, if I was a salesperson,  we’d be on the street because I’m just not good at selling things. But I am good about being passionate about what has helped me as a person. I’ve done my own brainspotting work and will continue to do so, and I love working again with folks through grief and, performance issues.

 Thad Frye: But all of that to say, at first that was the issue was just getting people to think about it, to be open to it, because it’s such a different structure. Many people that were coming in had never been to therapy. So here I am, not only saying how hard it is for people to reach out, call, put themselves out there, talk to somebody for a 15 minute consultation. And I’m telling them, well, it’s not like what your friend might have done. It’s not what you see on TV. This would be at least a portion of the work we would do, really having to be with your body, with your emotional brain and processing so that that really made it difficult.  I lost clients, but I always wanted to refer them to a CBT therapist or therapist because I want to get them where they are now. It’s a benefit. It’s all over all my websites. It’s very clear who I am.  I’m definitely grown in this area.  If anything, it’s nice because people actually come and they’ve even either had the experience or know somebody who’s had a really positive experience.  What started as a potential negative or really kind of blossomed into a really big positive.

Becky Coplen: Okay. very cool. You also have to do coaching as well as a performance coach. Do you use Brainspotting there as well?

Thad Frye: Okay. Yeah. That’s definitely true. Thank you. That’s primarily what I do. Of course I have other  other tools as well. But what I, I love helping somebody, you know, get into the zone and be able to really capture that part where it’s a disassociation, but it’s a positive one. It’s where everything is working. They’re in that flow state. Love that. But most of what I do actually is working with the things that athletes don’t want to talk about. It tends to be around mental blocks, tends to be around the yips, tends to be around things where all of a sudden they feel like they’ve lost the love for the game. And those aren’t the things that are talked about very often. It’s usually now I’ve connected with some agents and connected with some teams. they tend to help me, unconnect me with people that they’re noticing. Something’s up. So that’s lovely. But at first it was somebody who was a psychotherapist and their brother was in the pros, and they knew what was going on with them, but they weren’t willing to tell their team. they would come to me and we would do brainspotting and I’ll do a short version.

Thad Frye: But basically, when I work with an athlete, I’m not looking at just the person that’s here. the performance side of it, I’m really looking at the person and looking backwards and looking at what injuries they have, what surgeries have they had? But almost more importantly, often are what sports related traumas or embarrassments have they had? This can be when they were six years old and missed the shot at the end of the basketball game.  they looked around their buddies who usually loved them, looked at them like. They were the biggest jerks in the world, and they still can remember the butterflies from what that felt like. Right. And that’s restricting. And so we’ll go back and look at and I’ll have them write out before they meet with me about all that.  then we review what made you feel something in your body? I know it happened. You know, 20 years ago, two years ago, two days ago. What did you feel? And we work from those places to help their nervous systems process that. So it’s not affecting them in their current athletic performance. Yeah.

Becky Coplen: So fascinating and such a good reminder. Even the most wealthy and high achieving people have had their difficult moments and things that could pull them down for sure. when you talk about it often, it’s for a shorter season when you work with them. What’s the typical timeline if people were to come to you for therapy or coaching?

Thad Frye: Great question. Very different answers. Not always.  the famous line in Brainspotting,  when people ask questions it depends. I’ll start there. I’ll say that with although I see almost miraculous change at times with people with brainspotting on both sides, I’m never going to guarantee that. I wouldn’t want to ever guarantee that some people were working hard and were working for a long time.  I want to say that as well. but if I’m looking at, depending on what they’re coming in for therapy, I tend to work with people for at least a season or two. I tell them we’re more than likely working together for at least 3 to 6 months to really kind of process through, because often people come in for one reason and then discover it’s for more reasons or a different reason.  I want to leave that wide open every once in a while for like a single event trauma. I tell people, if you had a Beaver Cleaver people know who that is. If they had a Beaver Cleaver life before that, and relatively realistically, they had a really pretty, you know, good bonding childhood. Everything went really well and they got in a car accident and we’re doing brainspotting for that car accident, a single event trauma. We can usually do that in a couple sessions and people get back in their cars. there’s that extreme. But obviously if people have, you know, have had childhood sexual trauma, then we’re going to be working together probably for a much longer time just to honor what they’ve been through.

Thad Frye: And then on the coaching side, it can be really pretty brief depending on, what, what we’re working on and again, how long that goes back. Like I said, the word yips, the yips are, you know, you see it in many games, but, tends to show up in baseball pitchers, you see,  folks that sometimes on free throws,  I kickers and the NFL or college where all of a sudden these guys and women have done this for years upon years and excelled and done this beautifully. And then all of a sudden they can’t do it. Something has shifted where that precision way of letting go of the ball or kicking that ball, all of a sudden they move it or they pull back a tiny bit, just enough to make that beautiful precision shift enough that it’s actually not helpful at all. And so with that, I love working with people through the yips. Haven’t done it every time, but done it most of the times, which allows people to get back to playing and loving their sport.  That tends to be, I don’t want to quote the amount, but I’ll say a briefer time. So usually, you know, I do a couple intensives where I work with them instead of working in a 50 minute hour, sometimes I’ll work with them for three hours one day, three hours the next, and we can do some really good work in a short amount of time.

Becky Coplen: Yeah.  I definitely wanted to ask you about the yips, because on your website, I was seeing that a lot. And so basically you just gave us a good definition, right, where something tweaks the tiniest bit and it really throws things off.  My family is huge into the NFL.  if I ever tell my boys about the yips, they’ll be like, they need to go see,  Mr. Ryan, doctor Bray. good to understand about that as well.  One thing I was thinking about is when working with high profile people, as far as a lot of the scheduling planning, do you find that you’re working with agents?  do you really not speak with them until they’re doing the work in front of you? How does that work with people who have drivers and, you know,  admin and all of those things?

Thad Frye: Good question. So it’s been both,  like I said. When I first kind of put myself out there,  it was more a direct call, or it would be a direct call from a family member. Like I said, often I’d get emails or phone calls from somebody, mom, dad,  sister, brother, who usually was in the psychology field and had heard a podcast or had just looked into Brainspotting and maybe had found some of the work that I’d done. that would be a family member ushered them in, and then I would connect. And like anything else, I want to make sure I’m a good fit. I’m, you know, because I knew some other people in this,  that in this niche as well.  I always want to meet with them for a half hour and just make sure that I feel like I can do a good job, do good work with them, but they also feel comfortable with me.  then the other side, definitely more lately it’s been teams that have reached out to me. I’ve had GM’s reach out to me, I’ve had agents reach out to me. But I’ll say this, they’ve been beautiful in just kind of checking in, saying this is what we’re going into. This is what I’m seeing or what they’re saying that they might need help with. Is this something you can do? Let’s connect you and then go from there. So the nice part is sometimes there obviously can be barriers. And that’s understandable because people reach out to these folks a lot.  I think they need those layers of that. But once they feel comfortable enough it’s been really easy just to schedule with them.  My availability is going to be a little bit different,  with them because of the nature of the work that they do. I always talk to them about when I’m available and having those good boundaries of when I can’t be available.

Becky Coplen: Yes. For sure. when? So when you say like a GM reaches out to you, I don’t know. I just can’t help but think like with the pressure of performance, obviously, and the national or international viewings of things is it? I don’t even know how to phrase it exactly. But when someone who’s supposed to be the best is not functioning, it doesn’t mean that the general manager knows about their 15 year old trauma of their basketball tournament or whatever. So do they reach out because they’re like, help our team. We have to do better. I can think of multiple teams that would be in that situation.

Thad Frye: I believe me, when I watch sports, I and I have two kids and a wife, and we all love local sports here. See you.  basketball. See football,  and our professional team. So I try to be just present and be a father and be involved. But of course, now I’m looking for things and saying, huh? I wonder if there’s something there or even my kiddos. I have an 11 year old son and ten year old daughter, and sometimes they’ll be like,  I think,  they could work, you know, work with you. And I’ll say, well, I hope they get to work with somebody to help them. Right. Again. So, is the GM or agent or anybody,  like you said, I enjoy that. Are they knowing that it’s coming from a 15 year old part or a ten year old part? experience? Probably not. Maybe so much more. I think that’s the beauty in that more, folks are working in this side of the business, but they’re definitely noticing that something is shifted, usually fairly quickly. It can come over a season, for sure, but often it’s pretty quick.  looking for those things that cognitive pieces help but aren’t doing the job. So that’s why, like I said, I really have kind of planted my flag in looking at helping people with the stuff they don’t want to talk about. My hope is that they want to talk about it more. I mean, that’s really what I hope that it becomes more talked about within these sports,  that mental health piece, that limbic brain piece, that somatic piece,  becomes more normalized.

Becky Coplen: Yeah. No, I like thinking about it because I’m the person, I’m sure, just the work that we do. But I’m. And I can be competitive. But whatever the ones he wins. And of course you’re thrilled. It’s not very often that I, I feel bad for the other people or the, you know, the kick that they missed and sure, sure decided the end of the division. I don’t know, I just always feel bad because of the pressure, because everyone around me is like, they’re making billions. I’m like, I know, but it’s what they’re remembered for now.

Thad Frye: So yes, I’m there with you.

Becky Coplen: Yeah. you’ve been doing this particular part of your practice for seven years. Do you, are you spending, all of your time with clients or. I know you give volunteer time to the Rocky Mountain Institute. Are you doing a lot of training for others at this point or consulting? With other therapists. How is that part of your work at this point?

Thad Frye: Yeah, absolutely. As you can tell, I enjoy talking about it. So it’s definitely becoming part of the work that I do.  As you said, I do the volunteer piece for the Rocky Mountain Brainspotting Institute to raise awareness, uh, to build networking and, try to get us together. We had an event a couple months ago here in Boulder. It was lovely to get together with people, but yeah, I became certified in Brainspotting a number of years ago. Then I did a year and a half long training with one of the brainspotting therapists,  Melanie Young, uh, out here in Colorado and then became a consultant.  So I help people that, uh, you have to complete two classes of phase one and phase two, and then you work with a consultant, and that’s,  that I’m one of them. There are many out there.  but when I check with them, they reach out to me. I meet with them, make sure I’m a good fit with them, because we’ll be working together six times. And so I love doing that. Or I’ve had people reach out to me because of the specialty of working in athletics. I also work with musicians as well. And so people that are already in that field or are wanting to go more into that field and utilizing Brainspotting, sometimes I’ll just meet with them for a handful of times just to really talk them through the process. So yeah.

Becky Coplen: Yeah. Very cool. And are you licensed outside of Colorado?  to work as far as clients, how is that? I know every state is so different.

Thad Frye: I’m a licensed clinical social worker, and I’m licensed in the state of Colorado, in Michigan.  there you go. but my coaching practice is, totally separate business, totally separate paperwork, very clear,  between the differences between therapy and coaching, and if somebody ever if I work with an athlete or a musician and they’re needing, a further level of care, then I do a good job of helping them, do that, but no. So the rest of the folks I’ve worked with, people all across the United States as far as my coaching goes.

Becky Coplen: Okay. And let’s talk about that for a minute, because we do have people, who may want to go the coaching route as opposed to being a therapist. What would you say? You know, we can all Google the differences, but how would you see it differently with what is best for clients and for professionals going into this work?

Thad Frye: It’s like you said, we can just Google it. I know I have many times,  and then I talk with a lot of my therapist friends who all also do coaching, or I have friends that,  just do coaching people will probably look at details of what I said, but I’ll say it in general that therapy is often more long standing and working, for a longer periods of time, and it is often looking backwards. It’s looking more so at family of origin, attachment style, and working with those long standing traumas. Whereas often coaching is a more of a present, present looking, future oriented practice. That tends to be kind of the larger ones, obviously, the way that people are licensed and the way that the states look at it coaching is more wide open and doesn’t currently have that body in place. And whereas as a licensed clinical social worker, I have that in the state of Colorado, that I need to do a certain amount of hours to do ethics and all that stuff. Many coaches I’ve talked to do those hours as well.  but it’s not. I have to currently anyway.

Becky Coplen: So, Thad, why don’t you share with us a little bit about,  you mentioned talking to other therapists.  How do you collaborate with people either around the nation with Brainspotting,  and just even for support for you?

Thad Frye: Yeah. Love that. And thank you for saying that last part. I think that that’s an important piece I sometimes forget. I love the Brainspotting community. It truly means that I’ve had a lot of really good experiences. Being on the board, I think, allows me to know that I’m representing not only myself, but I’m representing the board.  we’re trying to, like I said, connect people,  kind of grow. Brainspotting. Naturally, for people that are interested in it. So that’s been lovely.  we actually, the board, but mainly one of my good friends, the vice president, Serene Caulkins, who’s a trainer and she is the one that is kind of spearheaded and brought forward. We had our second international, brainspotting conference a couple of years ago,  during the pandemic at the near the end of it.  It was an awesome thing that people came from all over the world. And we had it in, in our backyard in Denver.  so having that opportunity, having David Grant and all the different trainers was awesome.  I also, when I joined the board, one of the things that I wanted to do, along with a good friend who was on the board,  Jessica Klika, uh, we started what we call a Brainspotting roundtable, and it is a monthly,  online meeting for people that are usually newer, phase one, phase two of Brainspotting.

Thad Frye: I’ve, we have people that come, which is great as well from that have, a little bit more seasoned. But when I first learned that I was telling you about how impactful it was for me when I brought it back to hospice, and I had a small private practice at the time, I wasn’t sure about it. It was really interesting, but I didn’t know if I could use it. They weren’t so sure I should use it, so I almost let it go. I almost, and luckily I reached out to some trainers here and kind of had lunch with them and talked them through it, and they said, obviously do what makes sense for you and your practice, but this is the way it’s affected us. And that was enough for me to say when I joined the board, I want to have a place where people that are newer to this practice or might even let go of it because they’re not using it right away. I want them to have a safe place to come, come and talk and ask the questions that they’re not willing to ask in a larger place. Or once they’re doing that and it’s awesome, I love it. People can reach out to me through my website if they are phase one trained and want to join us, but that’s a free offering that’s been really big.

Thad Frye: And the other thing is people will often reach out to me and they’ll reach out. I’ll have other therapists who say, I’m really interested in brainspotting, but I would like to know what it feels like for me as a client. And obviously if they’re in Colorado or Michigan and we’re a good fit, I’m happy to do that. I’ve done that for some people that go on to become brainspotting therapists, but if they’re in different states, I have to be loud and clear that that wouldn’t be appropriate. But I network the heck out of myself on purpose to really find good folks. And I’m also a teacher’s assistant. I get to train with, not only Pi and Melanie and some of my good friends here, but also around the nation. And I get to know a lot of people through that.  That’s all the different ways. And you talked about me. I’ll share again, I do my own brainspotting work both through working with the therapist, but also because of my level of training, I do some self brainspotting, which is really helpful. One, and I know when I’m not doing it, so I try to do it on a fairly regular basis.

Becky Coplen: Yeah. Well, it’s always good to hear when whatever you’re passionate about is working for yourself as well. I love how many of our therapists and counselors connect, but I feel like you take it to a higher level, and it’s very important to you, and therefore you’re training more people and able to ethically refer people out everywhere, probably in every state. So that’s really great. yeah. We’ve learned so much today about Brainspotting and all the work that you’re doing, and we just appreciate your time coming on here and sharing with us today. Thanks for being with us.

Thad Frye: Awesome. Thanks so much for having me. I really do appreciate it.

Becky Coplen: Well, we appreciate you. And, you can check out his website, which reminds me how we get to the website again.