Mastering the Business Side of Therapy with Gabrielle Juliano-Villani Ep.69

Episode Overview

• Episode Topic:
  In this episode of Mastering Counseling, host Becky Coplen dives deep into the intersection of mental health and business with expert Gabrielle Juliano-Villani. Gabby shares her journey from being a full-time therapist to becoming a coach and consultant, helping therapists and counselors scale their businesses and prevent burnout. The discussion touches on the unique challenges and rewards of transitioning from clinical practice to business consultancy. Listeners will gain insights into Gabby’s multi-faceted approach, including retreats, leadership coaching, and Medicare consul
  
• Lessons You’ll Learn:
  Listeners will learn valuable lessons on how to effectively scale a therapy practice without sacrificing personal well-being. Gabrielle Juliano-Villani explains the concept of scaling, offering practical tips on delegating tasks, creating additional income streams, and managing business growth. Additionally, Gabby highlights the importance of understanding and applying Polyvagal theory for better stress management and resilience. The episode also provides insights into the complexities of insurance and Medicare billing, offering strategies for simplifying these processes. Finally, Gabby shares her experiences with burnout and the importance of self-care and energy protection for therapists and business owners.
  
• About Our Guest:
  Gabrielle Juliano-Villani is a former therapist who transitioned into coaching and consulting, focusing on helping therapists and small business owners thrive. She sold her group practice in 2021 due to burnout and has since dedicated herself to guiding others through similar challenges. Gabby is the founder of GJVE Consulting and Training, where she offers leadership coaching, burnout prevention strategies, and business scaling advice. Her expertise extends to conducting retreats focused on nervous system regulation and Polyvagal theory. Gabby’s diverse background and commitment to mental health and business excellence make her a sought-after consultant and speaker.
• Topics Covered:
  This episode covers a range of topics crucial for therapists and counselors looking to enhance their business acumen. Gabrielle Juliano-Villani discusses her journey from therapy to consulting, highlighting the challenges and successes along the way. Key topics include the concept of scaling a business, the importance of delegating tasks, and creating additional revenue streams. Gabby also delves into Polyvagal theory and its application in stress management and business resilience. The discussion extends to practical aspects of managing insurance and Medicare billing, offering actionable advice for simplifying these processes. Listeners will also hear about the transformative impact of Gabby’s retreats, which focus on deep personal and professional growth.

Episode Transcript

Becky Coplen: So glad to have our listeners back on mastering counseling today, where we dive deep into the mental health world, but also definitely on the business end, which we will hear a lot. Today we are super excited to have Gabrielle Juliano-villani, welcome to the show. Gabby.

 Gabrielle Juliano villani: Thanks so much for having me. And beautiful. You said my name perfectly.

Becky Coplen: Good, I it’s a very I feel like people do not forget your name for sure. Very powerful name. Yeah.

 Gabrielle Juliano villani: It’s definitely one that sticks in your mind. Yeah.

Becky Coplen: That’s awesome. She is an expert in the business side of things, and in the past has been a therapist and still maintains her license, but is now helping a lot of therapists and counselors with their businesses and either helping them grow, helping them prosper, perhaps even selling if they want to go in a different direction. So we’re going to talk a lot about that today, and I can’t wait to hear about all of your expertise in this. So, , why don’t you, , why don’t you first talk about your transition from full time therapy into, , coaching and consulting with others, and then maybe we’ll go back to earlier later.

 Gabrielle Juliano villani: Yeah. So I sold my group practice due to my own burnout, which is its own story in 2021. And as part of that deal, which is very normal if anybody is listening, is, you know, you usually stay on to help with the transition. So it’s not like you just, you know, sign a piece of paper, send somebody your passwords and like you’re done. So I stayed for a year. , but my goal actually was to not see clients anymore, which was a really hard decision for me to make because it also felt like part of my identity. But I was just very burnt out, and I felt like no matter what I did, no matter how I pivoted or changed my schedule or saw different clients or worked with different clients during different times of the day, it was always very draining for me, and I just felt like, at the very least, I needed a break and I knew that was the right thing for me is that, you know, working one on one for an hour just didn’t really fit in with my life and my values anymore. So I had been building my coaching and consulting and training and all the things that I do up on the side. And then I think it was like December 29th, 2022, I saw my last client.  Which was hard. Yeah. And so it’s been  over a year now that I have not been seeing therapy clients, and I have to say that they actually really love it and it’s definitely a better fit for me and my lifestyle.

Becky Coplen: Yeah, no, I think that’s awesome. We all have our things that we want to do, and therapists and counselors need help, especially on the business side. So I’m sure you are helping many in just a different way. So , the name of your practice is Gjve Consulting and Training. And actually is practice the right word, or do you think of it as a different way? More like a company?

 Gabrielle Juliano villani: Yeah, I would think of it as a company. And yeah, it’s funny because when I started this, I was like, I just need a name. So I just did my initials and now like four years later, I’m like, I would have called it something different, but it is what it is right now.

Becky Coplen: Yeah. For sure. Whatever works right? And people have to stop and think. Gj putting that together. I feel like it’ll stick with you for sure. So let’s talk about, , Give consulting and what does your work look like now?

 Gabrielle Juliano villani: So I am what a lot of people would say is somebody who’s multi-passionate, I do a lot of different things, which I really enjoy, and I know that’s not for everybody, but I do consulting, coaching, training on helping therapists and small business owners and healers add additional income streams. I help them scale their business. I do a lot of like leadership and executive coaching. And then of course I have a big focus on burnout prevention with that. And then the other part of my business is doing retreats and training and also consulting on burnout prevention using polyvagal theory or nervous system regulation. And the third thing that I do that seems kind of random, but it does tie in, is that I also do training and consulting on Medicare. So I help therapists and health care agencies accept and understand how to credential and bill and docent Medicare standards.

Becky Coplen: All right. What I feel like I’m hearing is you’re using all parts of your brain things because they’re definitely connected. But then also such different types of things. So I totally get that. I don’t like to do the same thing every day, so I get wanting to diversify yourself. So,  let’s just kind of break some of those down a little bit, because I did see the word scaling on your website a lot. Talk to us about what that means and even looks like. I don’t know that everyone, if they aren’t, don’t have a business degree. What exactly that mean?

 Gabrielle Juliano villani: Yeah, and that’s a good point, because I think a lot of us who don’t have, you know, any sort of other experience in business would know what that means. And I know I was definitely felt that in the beginning stages, too. When we’re talking about scaling, we’re thinking about how you can keep growing your business without you having to do everything. So what are the things that can help you keep growing where it’s not your one on one time anymore? And sometimes that means like hiring a VA. Sometimes that means, okay, I’m doing this one on one stuff. Maybe I can turn what I’m doing into a course, and that way I’m making money and I’m still helping people, and it’s a part of my business, but it’s not my one on one time, every single time to teach people those skills.

Becky Coplen: Okay, good. That’s a great explanation. And then , let’s talk about Polyvagal theory. I don’t think since I’ve been on here that we have discussed that with any therapist. So let’s talk about that for sure.

 Gabrielle Juliano villani: My favorite thing to talk about and Polyvagal theory sounds very sciency and scary and overwhelming, which really put me off from it for a very long time, until I had an amazing eMDR consultant who broke it down for me and that just like, totally switched it for me. And so Polyvagal theory is a theory that our automatic or autonomic nervous system has three different stages of how we respond to our environment, and to stress and to tra. So a lot of us are very familiar with fight or flight. That’s one stage of our nervous system that responds right when we have a threat in some way. And that’s, of course, like a very high level explanation. But why I love it so much is because we all have a nervous system. Everybody has a vagus nerve. If you’re on TikTok or Instagram and you follow anybody who’s about personal development, they talk a lot, right, about nervous system regulation. And that’s essentially what we’re talking about here. But all of us have a nervous system. It’s always responding to our environment, to our clients, to your family, to everything that’s happening around you. And when you have an understanding of that, it gives you more resilience and more psychological flexibility. And it absolutely has a lot to do with our business and how we run our business. And I think that’s a disconnect that I see a lot is that people aren’t connecting like, oh, the things that are happening in my practice or that are stressful or whatever in the business side of my life, has nothing to do with my own mental health or how I manage stress. Like, it seems like we don’t fully understand that that mind body connection shows up everywhere and every day. So I love doing some deeper work with people on that too.

Becky Coplen: Very interesting. Yeah. When you said it sounds very much like science, what stood out to me is the poly and I’m thinking math and geometry. So thank you for breaking that down. , for us. , and then, yeah, I think we’re all familiar with Medicare, but I know insurance is a huge thing. , some therapists and counselors don’t. They just do private pay, which, of course, is fine. But then some want to be able to accept a lot of insurance, so I’m sure that is a huge help for you. , I mean, huge help for them. How many? Just curious on that. If someone came to you strictly to understand insurance better and manage that, how many sessions would, , they usually need in that department, would you say on average.

 Gabrielle Juliano villani: I think for most people, if I’m thinking of somebody who has never build insurance on their own before at all, probably like 3 to 6, depending on, you know, how much insurance you’re taking, like if you’re just going to take Medicare, for example, then we would just have one thing to focus on. But if you’re going to be accepting commercial insurance, that might take, you know, a couple more sessions because all of that looks a little bit different. , but, you know, I think that’s another thing that really overwhelms people in private practice. And I’m a big believer like, you know, delegate the things that you don’t want to do. But I’ll also say, if you do put a little bit of time and resources into learning how to do that, it’s not as complicated as it seems. I did all the billing for my practice and at our biggest we had 15 people, and I actually really liked doing it because it was like it was it was tedious, but it like has a beginning and an end.

Becky Coplen: I knew you were going to say that right when.

 Gabrielle Juliano villani: You started saying.

Becky Coplen: Like, we love. A lot of times things are never end. So we love the beginning and end job.

 Gabrielle Juliano villani: Exactly. , like submit click. That’s done. Onto the next thing. So again I really like doing it. I know a lot of people don’t. But you know, if you’re in solo practice you can probably spend very few hours a week , submitting your own claims. And that will probably save you a lot of money instead of hiring a biller. 

Becky Coplen: Okay. Very cool. Well switching kind of more opposite from insurance. Let’s talk about the retreats that you do. How big are they? Where are they and what would people get out of them?

 Gabrielle Juliano villani: I love retreats too, and I really focus on small, intimate retreats. So, , usually like 10 to 12 people is the sweet spot. I don’t think that I would have more than 14, but I really like a smaller group because the connection is key, and I think a lot of people go into retreats not thinking about that part. They’re thinking more about like, oh, I’m going to heal this, or I’m going to recover from this, or I’m going to get like some insights into this. But the connection the community always ends up being the thing that I hear over and over again, and that sometimes people are surprised by that. Which makes sense, just the way that our world has changed so much. But my retreats focus on Polyvagal theory. So again, I break that down for you into less science terms, and we really do a lot of experiential and active work on integrating that and understanding that for yourself. So we do a lot of activities on your own nervous system to understand it. I’m also a sound healer. So we do sound healing. We do some deep meditation. I always integrate nature because that’s very important for all of us as well. so far I’ve only hosted them in Belize. I’m sure I will do them elsewhere eventually, but I love Belize. I love the energy there. I love the people. They’re very warm, they’re very welcoming. And then just, you know, from a logistics standpoint, there’s lots of nonstop flights from the US and other places in the world in Canada. , so it’s easy to get to for most people. It’s in Central Time Zone and everyone speaks English. So, you know, most of my audience is in North America, so that just makes it a little bit easier. Even though I love to travel and I would go anywhere in the world, I know it’s a big ask, and not everybody is willing to get on a plane and go to somewhere they’ve never heard of before. So I find Belize is just very easy and you still get just an incredible, really special experience from it.

Becky Coplen: Yeah, no, that sounds amazing. And, , do you typically say, like, in the same hotel or resort type of place when you’re there? What does that look like as far as the accommodations? Because I want to sign up.

 Gabrielle Juliano villani: Yeah, you should come. We still have three spots left in June. So the one in June is actually, , on a private island resort. So the entire island is just the resort, which is really cool. So we’re a little bit offshore. It’s still pretty easy to get to. It’s just a 20 minute boat ride offshore. , but it’s just us and we’re surrounded by ocean and there’s overwater bungalows and cabanas. And everywhere you look you have ocean views, and there’s two dogs that live on the island, so we get some cuddles with them if you like animals. Yeah. All the food is fresh from their farms, which is cool. , so it’s like a very intimate, special, unique experience. And then that’s the one in June. The one I did in January was the same resort group, but it was in the jungle in San Ignacio, Belize. So we were on a river. , that was actually really amazing. We had an infinity pool that overlooked the river. We had two cans and howler monkeys and all these different animals that came every day. And we visited Mayan temples and we did river tubing. So both different experiences of Belize. And that’s another reason that I like Belize is you get you get a little bit of everything. You can get jungle, you can get ocean, you can get adventure. But the resort group that I’ve worked with so far, I love them because they do so much of the planning for me. So nobody has to worry about airport transportation and it’s all inclusive. But they also are all about sustainability and they only hire locals. So that’s really important to me too.

Becky Coplen: That is amazing. Give me one second really quick. Okay. Uh, I wanted to ask you, , with the retreats, was that something that you had experienced as a therapist? And then you knew you wanted to have that part of, , this business or just something you dreamed up yourself. How did those start to become a bi annual thing?

 Gabrielle Juliano villani: It was a little bit of both. So I have always dreamed of having a job where I could work and travel at the same time. And so because I love to travel, so that was part of it. And then the second part was that I went on a retreat with a friend, and she’s also somebody who I did coaching with a couple of years ago. And the transformation that I had was really amazing, and it was one of the most helpful things in my own journey. , and so, you know, when I started focusing on burnout prevention, she encouraged me to do retreats, too. She’s like, that just fits so nicely with what you’re doing. And of course, you know, there were lots of thoughts that came up like, nobody’s going to sign up for this, and I don’t know what I’m doing and where am I going to do it and how and why. But, you know, I’m also a big believer in doing things even when you’re afraid. So I did and it was amazing. And it’s worked out.

Becky Coplen: That’s awesome. Yeah, I love that. , there is a lot on your website, and you mentioned earlier about burnout prevention, and this is one of the means, I’m sure, that you recommend. , do you still meet with people on that as, like a coach type of mentor, or is that something where you would more refer them to a therapist friend?

 Gabrielle Juliano villani: I do coaching and like mentoring around that. A lot of times people do come to me and it’s already part of their business to they’re like, I’m running a business, I’m burnt out. I need help with how to streamline and change things, so I’m less burnt out, but not always so. I do very good, actually. Let me say that a different way I screen people appropriately or as best as I can, because I want to make sure that if we are talking about burnout, that there is not underlying tra or mental health stuff that needs to be dealt with. Also, since I’m not doing therapy anymore, I would refer somebody like that out for therapy.

Becky Coplen: Yeah. Thanks for clarifying that. I was wondering if you had any, , really great, like, success stories in the last year , that you would like to share? Obviously not their names, but, , maybe just something that you feel most proud of in the last year and few months after on this new venture.

 Gabrielle Juliano villani: Oh, I love that question. You know, I think reading the testimonials from my retreat in January has been very eye opening, because I do know that they can be life changing. But I think, you know, for me and somebody who understands a lot about this already, like when I’m teaching it, I already know it. And so sometimes it’s easy to forget how it lands for people. But the testimonials and feedback that I got, all of them said like this has been the most transformative thing I’ve done. Like one of them said, in my 30 years as a social worker, it’s the best thing I’ve ever done for myself. And somebody else said, you know, she’s not, , she’s in the service industry, she’s a hairstylist. So it’s not just for therapists. And she was saying, like, I was about to quit my job of my entire career and do something else because I couldn’t handle it anymore. And she said that the retreat just completely shifted everything for her. And, you know, now, a couple months later, she’s like, I’m sleeping better. I’m like a different person. I have better skills and tools to manage my stress. So it’s just really cool to see that six days together can have that big of an impact on someone’s life.

Becky Coplen: Yeah. Oh, I’m glad you mentioned how long in my head. I don’t know why I was thinking 3 or 4 days, but six days. Yeah, that sounds awesome. , that’s great that you have those testimonials, and I’m so glad they have been really successful for you. , would you mind sharing with us maybe some challenges you faced in shifting, even even going back to when you were a full time therapist? , or now, as more of a coach and consultant, what would be some of the challenges that people would want to know about so they can be ready to handle it?

 Gabrielle Juliano villani: There have been a lot, and I think one of the biggest ones that came up for me is that it’s I’m going to use the word sell, even though I don’t really think it’s selling. It’s sharing. But, you know, to get business, I guess, or to get revenue or leads, that process is a lot different than therapy, so you have to do a lot more of building an audience, a lot more showing up. I felt like and also, you know, I had had a practice for a long time, and so it was kind of a well oiled machine at that point, clients would just come to us because we had good SEO and I had all these amazing relationships built in the community. But then shifting from doing that to just completely starting a brand new business for myself, I kind of forgot how much work it is in the beginning. Yeah. And so there’s a lot of just, again, showing up consistently. , and there were a lot of times where I was like, and I still have these days where I’m like, why don’t I just get a job and work for somebody else a lot easier? , but, you know, there’s always that fire underneath that’s like, nope, that’s not what you’re meant to do.

 Gabrielle Juliano villani: So you just have to keep going. And I think it’s, you know, important to look and reflect, too, because there are a lot of times where I was doing a lot of things for free, like, you know, speaking or training and I’m like, I should be getting paid for this. But, you know, for example, , I got invited to speak at a conference last year, and I did it for free and I had to travel, so that was expensive, and I had to pay for my own hotel and food. But it’s a well known, really established conference. And from that, I’ve had three people hire me to do paid training for their teams, and not just one offs like more. So it’s more income. And I just had somebody reach out to me two weeks ago, and they want me to be a keynote speaker, , for their conference this year, and I’m going to get paid what I would get paid for like five hours of work speaking for 90 minutes. So you do those things for free, you know, like it can snowball if it’s a good fit. So yeah. , so yeah, there’s a lot of challenges there, especially with the imposter syndrome showing up. Yeah.

Becky Coplen: , yeah. I’m actually shocked that at a well established conference, you wouldn’t have been paid something or at least travel. But it’s probably good you took the plunge and now it’s paying off for sure. So, , I did want to ask in starting the new business, , is it solely you, . Or do you have other people working for you or with you?

 Gabrielle Juliano villani: It’s just me doing a lot of the training. The consulting. Like all that stuff is still me, but I have people who help me on the back end. So I have a virtual assistant. I have somebody who helps me with marketing. I have a copywriter that I kind of use for hire, so to speak, and I have somebody who helps me with social media too. So in the beginning, I was doing a lot of that myself , or using my virtual assistant for like, everything. And then as I’ve grown, I’ve been able to keep adding on things that I can delegate, that I feel like take me a lot of time, or I don’t enjoy doing or I’m not good at doing.

Becky Coplen: So you’ve been scaling, right?

 Gabrielle Juliano villani: Yes, exactly. I’ve taken my own advice.

Becky Coplen: All right. Well, another thing on your own advice, I’m sure. I’m sure. Going on the retreats and leading them in Belize has its own fun for you, but you’re obviously still the speaker and in charge. So what would be some things you could share that you do to take care of your own burnout, prevention and self-care time?

 Gabrielle Juliano villani: Yes, hugely important question, because as somebody who is, I would say like a hustler, like I was always that person that had multiple jobs and always going, going, going, which really led to my own burnout. It’s very easy for me to get back into that pattern, so I have had to do a lot of work on doing that, , which definitely goes into nervous system regulation. And so I pay a lot of attention to me and I slow down. I check in with myself multiple times a day. , especially because I have ADHD that was just diagnosed in the past couple of years too. So I can easily hyper focus or get distracted or procrastinate. And so I check in with myself a lot. Like, what do I need right now? I know that I’m privileged and I get to work how I want to work, So I don’t do things in the morning because I like a slow morning and I do the hardest thing first. So I just am very big on energy protection and, you know, doing a lot of things that are good for me. I meditate, I get outside, I again listen to myself. I take breaks when I need to, I say no when I need to and especially with retreats, it has a lot of energy output, so I actually do a lot of decompressing after. So I always stay after for a couple of days and just give myself time.

Becky Coplen: Yeah, to enjoy what everyone else enjoyed for sure.

 Gabrielle Juliano villani: Yep.

Becky Coplen: Yeah, I like that word too. Energy protection. That’s a really good phrase. , yeah. Well. Thank you. I love all the things you’ve been sharing with us today and what you’re doing. , with your consulting, is there anything else you feel that we didn’t, uh, cover that you wanted to mention? Or you want us to know about your consulting?

 Gabrielle Juliano villani: I don’t think so. I think we managed to cover all of the things that I do in the past half hour. Yeah.

Becky Coplen: No, I think it was great. Very interesting. And , good to hear the testimonials. I did want to mention your website that I’m sure will list, but, , uh, Gabrielle. Julian. Oh, Vilani. Oh, yeah. Juliano-villani just like your name. Dot com. Yep. , so people can check that out. Especially if you need a reason to head to Belize. You know, maybe you could get your work places to cover it. Those sound awesome. And, , yeah, thank you so much for giving us your time today. Especially not feeling great. I think it was great. You never know. , and appreciate you giving us your time.

 Gabrielle Juliano villani: Thank you so much for having me, Becky. It was good to chat with you, and I hope this was helpful for all your listeners, too.
Becky Coplen: Yes, I’m sure it will be. And congrats on the new speaking engagements and the connections you made. I hope that goes really well. , to our listeners, thank you so much for tuning in. We’d love to hear from you. , about our past episodes and this episode. Uh, we look forward to the future as we continue to speak with therapists and counselors all across the country. And I am signing off for today. Have a wonderful day.