Mindset Coaching and Empowering Women Entrepreneurs with Monica Denais Ep. 40

Episode Overview

• Episode Topic:
  In this captivating episode of Mastering Counseling, this episode engages in a captivating conversation with Monica Denais, a Latinx Licensed Professional Counselor and sought-after expert and host of the podcast “Café with Monica“. The focus is on the journey of empowering the realm of confidence-building for ambitious women and entrepreneurs. Monica Denais shares her unique approach to helping women overcome self-doubt, anxiety, and burnout. We explore the intersection of mental health and entrepreneurship, uncovering strategies to cultivate resilience and embrace success in both personal and professional spheres.
• Lessons You’ll Learn:
  Listeners can expect to gain insights into the nuances of starting and growing a counseling practice, especially one with a distinct focus. Monica Denais provides invaluable insights into minimizing counseling duration while maximizing impact, offering real-world examples of efficient and transformative counseling practices. Listeners will gain a deeper understanding of addressing codependency, perfectionism, and entrepreneurial stress unique to women entrepreneurs. She shares her passion for creating a supportive environment that encourages women to thrive, offering tangible takeaways for personal and professional growth.
• About Our Guest:
  Meet Monica Denais, a sought-after expert and host of the podcast “Café with Monica.” Based in Dallas, Texas, Monica specializes in helping ambitious women and entrepreneurs overcome obstacles and build confidence. With a background in counseling and mindset coaching, she brings a unique perspective to the intersection of mental health and entrepreneurship, creating lasting change in the lives of her clients.
• Topics Covered:
  The episode spans three insightful segments. In the first, Monica details her approach to empowering women entrepreneurs, addressing deep-rooted patterns and fostering positive change. The second segment explores Monica’s streamlined counseling approach, emphasizing efficiency, impact, and personal growth. Lastly, Monica shares strategies for cultivating lasting change and personal growth, building a supportive community for women entrepreneurs. The episode concludes with a reflection on Monica’s transformative insights, encouraging listeners to engage in the ongoing conversation on social media and stay tuned for future transformative discussions.

Episode Transcript

Monica Denais: Let’s think about how you made that money. And if it took hours, which you probably had during Covid because a lot of times we weren’t able to use our protective factors like go to church or go to happy hour with friends or do all these things like social things, which were meant for us to stay stable. There’s a different circumstance now because now everybody has access again to the things that we were missing during Covid. So we have to reinvent and adapt. So learning how to fail and learning from those mistakes versus perpetuating as I am a failure. No, that thing failed. You’re not a failure. You still have the tools that got you there. You might just need to like, tweak and adapt them a little bit.

Becky Coplen: Welcome to Mastering Counseling, the weekly business show for counselors. I’m your host, Becky Coplen. I’ve spent 20 years working in education in the role of both teacher and school counselor. Each episode will be exploring what it takes to thrive as a counseling business owner. From interviews with successful entrepreneurial counselors to conversations with industry leaders on trends and the next generation of counseling services, to discussions with tech executives whose innovations are reshaping counseling services. If it impacts counseling, we cover it on mastering counseling. Today. We’re so excited to have Monica Denais with us on our show today. And she is a Latinx licensed professional counselor in Dallas, Texas, who specializes in helping ambitious women and entrepreneurs overcome self-doubt and build confidence in both personal and professional life. She is very sought after, as she is an expert in host of the podcast cafe with Monica, and she interviews inspiring entrepreneurs and discusses mental health and entrepreneurship topics, which is a lot of what we do on this show. So thank you for bringing your expertise over here. Welcome today.

Monica Denais: Thank you for having me, Becky.

Becky Coplen: All right. We have a lot to cover. And as I was exploring your website, your videos and your podcasts, you have talked to so many people and you have some very creative elements on your website. And I really look forward to hearing about all that. But why don’t you talk to us about your focus with ambitious women and entrepreneurs, and how you scale down to focus on that demographic?

Monica Denais: Yeah, I think I feel like I have to start a little bit with my story. I grew up in a small border town called Laredo, Texas, a border city from Mexico in Texas, and I never really knew much about, like, how much my ambition was driving me to the ground. I was always told growing up, get a stable job, go to college, get all of these accolades to prove myself to a point where I took it so seriously, where I put myself towards burnout. I had graduated from my master’s degree, got the dream job that I thought I was going to take, working in community mental health for the government, and I was completely burnt out. I started noticing I’m like, I don’t know if I can do this. I don’t know if I could have this huge case. But at the time, I worked working with people with various disabilities to help them find employment, a lot of people are not always going to work in the traditional 8 to 5 job. During that time, I noticed a lot of people who wanted to start a business, but the program I was dedicated to wouldn’t really give them an outlet to do that. And I thought to myself, I don’t think that I want to continue doing this. Like I thought that a stable 8 to 5 was the route that I wanted to go towards, and quickly realized that it wasn’t for me. So while I was licensed as an intern, I started a podcast, and because I said to myself, I just wanted to network. I just want to basically make a name for myself. Nobody knows me. And I think sometimes in school they discourage you from like marketing yourself as an intern. They really want you to focus on utilizing your supervisor and learning. And for me, I’m like, I learn as I like from other people, I learn from networking. I learn from just like applying and learning things, and not so much like just being on the sidelines and being in the background. And so I ended up starting the podcast, which then introduced me to a network of entrepreneurs in Dallas. I remember this I went to Dallas Startup Week, which is a week here in Dallas where just a bunch of founders get together, and I remember going by myself knowing no one, but I started talking to people. A year later, I was actually asked to be a speaker there because I knew I’m like, I am going to start calling myself a therapist for entrepreneurs before I’ve even had my first entrepreneurial client. And I also knew there was such a need. I started having conversations with women and where at least here in Dallas, there wasn’t a specific therapist who was focusing on ambitious women and focusing on entrepreneurial stress, which oftentimes times when we’re having business stress can trickle down to our personal life. And so there wasn’t anybody kind of feeling that need. So then I said, what if, what if I just started calling myself a therapist for entrepreneurs embracing it, just really trying to create content on social media that could really resonate with these people because it resonated with me. I was already looking for this type of content because as a Latina, first gen Mexican American didn’t have anybody to teach me about business. And I loved my counseling program, but they didn’t really have a course on business or entrepreneurship. That’s basically like my journey. I was just in a room with women and saw a need.

Becky Coplen: I love how your story pushed you along and how you just called yourself a “I’m reaching entrepreneurial women even though I might not have my first client yet,” but look at where it’s brought you. That’s so awesome. Let’s talk about some of your clients and some of the maybe deep-rooted patterns or behaviors that they are experiencing, and how you start with them to lead them out of that, maybe darker spots. Or just something that they want to tweak to help them have the success that they are longing for.

Monica Denais: Yeah, I feel like some of the common patterns that we’ve a lot of entrepreneurs experience is definitely anxiety. Definitely a lot of burnout and definitely a lot of maybe unmet needs that they’re trying to fix with the business. So I always tell clients, like, I always have to ask them, what brought you into business? Sometimes it is the control part, right? I want to control how I make money. I want to control what I have to do. And then they get into entrepreneurship and then they become slaves to their clients. They are not sticking to their boundaries. They are constantly thinking about the pressure of the financial aspect of entrepreneurship. They’re constantly thinking about their next goal. So those are some of the common things where I see my clients and regardless whether they’re making five figures, six figures, seven figures, it is still the same concerns. Whether that is they are maybe not focusing on their personal life so much and they’re focusing so much on their business. Maybe their business is just starting. And so we can start seeing this imbalance leading towards burnout or this imbalance of leading towards perfectionist tendencies, like having to maybe not take action. Maybe they’re like stuck on, I have to have the perfect website, or I have to have the perfect social media presence, or even I’ve had some clients tell me that sometimes their family gets the crumbs of them like they get the crumbs left over at the end of the day because their priority is getting their business off the ground, or up-leveling or scaling or doing all these things and unintentionally that happens. And so where I see this imbalance. So one of the ways that I like to approach these types of problems is I have a company, a combined approach with acceptance and commitment therapy and solution-focused therapy and for me, it begins with the belief that my clients are the experts of their lives, and I focus less on the problem and more on generating solutions. Ions. Because a lot of these women are so self-aware to where they’re having a conversation. And I know this is my problem, and I know this is my problem. And so sometimes cognitive behavioral therapy may not meet the need for them because they’re aware they’re aware of their thoughts. It’s not a matter of reframing thoughts. They need to have action steps. They need to have ways to be able to apply to first change the behavior versus changing the thought. And so I help clients to stop avoiding denying and stop struggling with some of their inner emotions, whether that’s anxiety, whether that’s pressure or that stress, or even anger, or frustration. I allow them and give them the space and tools to accept that these are feelings that are appropriate responses to any situation. I think we live in a culture where we’re constantly wanting to either get rid of, manage, or just never feel negative emotions. And I’m like, you need anxiety in your life. If a bus was coming towards you, like your anxiety is going to tell you, get out of the way. And so I think when we start diving deep into those because a lot of it is the intellect lies a lot, I have to put it in a practical way for them to be able to cultivate the skill of accepting these negative emotions, knowing that even if they experience anxiety to a healthy degree, or even if they experience frustration, that is part of your journey. That is part of the hardships. But it doesn’t necessarily mean that it prevents you from moving forward in your life. And it is very collaborative. I love to identify my client’s strengths and the resources that they have available in order for them to actually make change using those resources because I think not everyone has the same strengths, not everybody has the same resources, and it’s going to look very different for a person who comes to therapy. Maybe they’ve never gone there before, maybe they’ve never done any kind of personal development work, really just looking at like, where are you at? What are your strengths? What are the strengths that you often overlook with solution brief focus therapy? There’s a lot of emphasis that in our life we make a lot of exceptions. There are things that we’re like, oh, I could have a hard conversation with someone. But then when it comes to family, I could totally not have that hard conversation. And so I challenged them and saying that, you have the tools. It just so happens that there’s a different narrative with this particular person. So it’s very collaborative. It’s very we together collaboratively write the treatment plan and we write the treatment plan with their words. Because I think sometimes at least that’s why whenever I went to therapy, I’m like, wow, I like, do I have a treatment plan? What is my treatment plan and what are my goals? And that was not discussed. And I didn’t know at the time that, oh, a therapist have treatment plans and we have objectives and goals. And so for me, I really wanted to make sure my clients know exactly what we’re working with. But they also know that if we needed to divert to a different conversation, we could, but that we always have the goals and objectives in mind written in a language that they can understand if that makes sense.

Becky Coplen: If some people, especially if they’re entrepreneurial counselors or therapists, are so aware of their body, right? They’re probably so aware of the problem part counselors especially. I’ve heard this before, where some of them may need more coaching. A lot of it mixes together, but everyone needs a different thing depending on their background and their education and how aware they are of themselves. So thanks for pointing that out. And I like how you use the phrase experts of their lives, and you give them a clear vision by writing out goals and all that type of thing.

Becky Coplen: Do you find the entrepreneurs you’re helping? Are they mainly in the mental health world, or are you helping with other fields and what would those be?

Monica Denais: So I have a lot of people in the personal development space. So these are mindset coaches and health coaches. I also have a lot of fitness industry people. I also have a lot of tech startup people. So, people who previously worked for companies like Meta, Google, Pinterest, I have those. So very like high level. Either they came from being high-level executives or had high positions in those particular companies, and they’re not like starting their own thing, they’re starting their own startup. And then I do have a good caseload in my coaching and also consulting because I do consulting with clinicians for their private practice. I do see some mental health therapists, social workers, psychologists. I just help really figure out what does their definition of success means, and how would they like their private practice to look like. At least for me, what I saw is there was coaching programs and business programs that were teaching the person what they did, and the person felt frustrated trying to apply the same techniques that the business coach did, and it wasn’t relevant to them, or they didn’t see the successes like for them, like it wasn’t replicated. So I also have a lot of business coaches too, which is interesting, but we do more of that mindset work for them so that they are able to bring good techniques and strategies for the clients that they help. Yeah, so it’s a combination of like different industries for sure.

Becky Coplen: One thing that when we were looking and planning, it seemed like you definitely have a focus on efficiency and getting the most value out of the counseling sessions with your clients. Can you talk about that angle of your practice?

Monica Denais: Yeah, I love to leverage a lot of tools, and for me, my own experience with therapy and also in the mental health field, we have just such a long way still to go. We’re making strides to really get more advancing technology and to be able to use automation, but still, like the human to human interaction is obviously needed. I think the minute my client starts with me if you did look at my website, you’ll see that if they book a consultation, I already have three questions asking them so that I can identify where a good fit and this could be. Availability pay, are you available this day? So they know? Okay, maybe yes. I always say okay, I’m out of network. So this is the transparency of pricing. This is how much it would cost. And then I always ask like where did you find me? And I always ask, what are the specific things that you’re looking for? Are you an entrepreneur or are you a therapist or are you a business professional? Because I want to make sure that it’s aligned with me. I don’t waste their time. And during the consultation, we can now get into the nitty gritty as, okay, what are the pain points that you’re experiencing? And then that way we start off on a good note. Once that all happens, we have the consultation. I give them an initial assessment and some intake paperwork. And it really tedious. I tell clients they’re going to need 20 to 30 minutes at least to fill this out, because I want to be able to dive in the first session. I want to be able to know a little bit more about your first session. And that has really helped because as soon as we get into it, we’re not having to go through the intake paperwork. Now, it’s just I have their questions and I can ask clarifying questions so we can go deeper and start having a little draft of our targeted goals that we may want so that we can establish a clear roadmap for them. Something else that I do for my sessions is I keep them very progress-oriented. I make sure that my clients, like I said, are part of the treatment planning process and that they sign it, that they know that, hey, we’re going to have a 60-day or 90-day plan. You have it in your client portal. You can look at it any time and know that I’ll be referencing it throughout our sessions. And then I like to also give regular evaluations. So this could be like if we have a 90-day plan or like a 90-day treatment plan, it might be every month. We’ll have just like a little progress. We’re reaching the end of our 90 days. This is what I’m looking at. Is there something that we keep? Are you feeling good about how we’re progressing? And that’s really cool because I feel like that empowers the client to feel like, oh my gosh, I’m not going to be in therapy forever. And even then, I also teach them that it’s okay to be in therapy if they decide to self-care tools for them, and we can just minimize sessions so that they have some goals in mind. But at the same time, they can always use this as a self-care tool and they don’t always have to come weekly by weekly or whatever the case. Other tools that I use that I currently for my EHR program, my health records program, where I keep all my client records and my clients have portals. I use simple practice. I don’t know if you’re familiar with simple practice, so basically use the most time effectively and they’re making progress. They have a treatment progress tool. So after each session, you have the option to either pick a specific goal from your treatment plan. And then you can select a status report. So let’s just say the goal was to minimize rumination on decision making as an example. Then I could put on the status okay, this person has regressed or maybe this person has improved, or maybe this person has made progress. So utilizing those kinds of tools has been so helpful in just streamlining the process, making it so easy. My clients, just they know that I’m super organized. They get emails to remind them about their appointments because I don’t want them to miss them. I don’t want them to miss out. I don’t want them to have to pay a fee and then they’re having to come back another day and then not like, miss the progress that they were making. So I’m very efficient in making sure one bridges the gap from helping them show up and also making them aware of what they’re working on and always having those goals in mind.

Becky Coplen: This episode is brought to you by mastersincounseling.org. If you’re considering enrolling in a master’s level counseling program to further your career, visit mastersincounseling.org to compare school options via our search tool that allows you to sort by specific degree types, tuition, our costs, online flexibility, and more. One thing I’m seeing all the time on a lot of counselors’ and therapists’ websites is often the phrase out of network, and I would just love for some of our new people going into this field, or maybe not understanding the business side. If you could just talk about how that works for your clients when you use the phrase out of network with insurance.

Monica Denais: Yeah. So when it’s out of network, it basically means that you are not a network with the insurance, meaning the insurance. You don’t have a relationship, a contract with the insurance or any insurance, whether that be Blue Cross Blue Shield, United Healthcare, or whatever insurance, you’re just not partnered with them. So your clients have options. So the option is private pay, meaning they pay cash, and they pay with a card. Or they could also pay with a health savings account, usually given from their employer, where they put money into the account specifically for health reasons. And they can still utilize that for someone who is out of network and then also out of network means that if your client has insurance but you’re out of network, you can provide what is called a super bell. The Super Bell basically just has a summary of all the services that you’ve provided to your client, including a diagnosis, because that’s what the insurance needs in order to potentially get reimbursed. So let’s just say the insurance only pays clinicians $80, but you are out of network and you charge 160 potentially your insurance if you’ve met your deductible. Meaning if you met a certain threshold of what you’re supposed to pay for your benefits, they’ll say, hey, we’ll pay $80 out of that 150 and we’re going to reimburse you because we’re paying for that. So that’s potentially something that clients could do. But out of network just basically means you’re not contracted with the insurance. Therefore you wouldn’t submit the stuff for the client. Some clinicians do. Some clinicians submit the super bill to the insurance. I don’t do that. I just give my clients a road map of, hey, this is what you could do. This is the number that you can call for basic information. So if they want to do it, they can. But that’s just like the most simplest way of saying it, it’s they’re not contracted with the insurance.

Becky Coplen: Let’s talk about are there some specific clients that you have permission from or maybe you just speak in general that you have seen through the years who have had some great success, or you just really felt good about the case and where it took them, and just maybe some of your most proud moments over the last few years?

Monica Denais: Yeah, I don’t have specific clients, but I could I’ll talk more about my coaching clients because it’s a little bit easier for me to talk about their progress. But overall, I’ve had people who have come in, they’re making a lot of money. They’re making, again, 6 to 7 figures, a crazy amount of money. And a lot of them that I notice is specifically got a lot of their success during Covid. So they were making because in the fitness industry. So anybody in the fitness industry who was doing fitness programs or they were doing online things, they were successful because what were we doing during Covid? Nothing but just being at home. So they were really successful. But then when Covid stopped, they started seeing like a decline in the consistency and stability of their business. And so that created a lot of financial stress and anxiety. And one of the things that was so helpful with working together was just really understanding the way business works, and that you’re not always going to have these consistent, stable months. And the more that you’re able to accept the uncomfortableness of that emotion because it’s a situation that you have to grow comfortable with or be uncomfortable, but know that there’s going to come a time because with saw with certain clients is they would let their circumstance dictate the way they were making decisions. So they were putting out things in their business that didn’t make sense, that weren’t aligned with them. They were like, I’m putting so much hours. I feel like social media has a claim over my business. I feel not in control, which is one of the probably primary reasons why they went into business. I saw by us working together to help them cope during this time of uncertainty and to learn and redefine their definition of success and learn that pay, that strategy might have worked during Covid because there were certain environmental factors that contributed to your success work, then that doesn’t mean that it might work now. So it’s better to adapt, reinvent, realign, and see. I was able to help them understand that, wow, I could actually make a business that probably feels more aligned than I have before and still make the money that I make. It just looks different because I really told them, hey, let’s think about how you made that money. And if it took hours time, which you probably had during Covid. Because a lot of times we weren’t able to use our protective factors, go to happy hour with friends, or do all these things which are more meant for us to stay stable, right? Protective factors like that are meant for us to stay stable and healthy. But because we weren’t doing that, a lot of people, especially entrepreneurs and ambitious women, put their efforts into work or career or fitness or whatever. So I told them there’s a different circumstance now because now everybody has now access again to the things that we were missing during Covid. So we have to reinvent and adapt. So helping them learn through the transition of adapting, and learning stress management tools for them to feel better about where their business is going. But that was a trend that I saw a lot, and that I feel so great that my clients now are no longer feeling this claim over financial stress like they’re not feeling like financial stress owns them. Instead, if they fail, they see it as that has to happen in business in order for me to figure out and do things differently. So yeah, so learning how to fail and learning how to learn from those mistakes versus perpetuating as I am a failure. No, that thing failed. You’re not a failure. That thing failed. And just like you were able to be successful in 2020, you can be successful in 2022 because you still have the tools that got you there. You might just need to like, tweak, and adapt them a little bit. So that’s one of the themes that I saw. That was really cool seeing people helping them during that transition.

Becky Coplen: I definitely wanted to touch on, I believe you see clients in person and using telehealth, right? And one thing I really loved on your website was your video of your office and just seeing the space, right? I love looking at people’s faces, houses, offices, whatever. So that’s just fun. But then if you’re going to talk to someone about serious matters, I think it brings an added comfort level. Just talk to us about how that works online in the office. Anything about that?

Monica Denais: Yeah, I personally chose to do that because I remember the first time that I went to my therapist’s office and I didn’t know this wasn’t college. I didn’t know where the building was. I wish that they would have given me directions. My anxiety was so on another level. And so I think to myself, if my clients this is their first time, or regardless, I don’t know about you, but Dallas, we have a lot of some like parallel parking downtown, and so I always have to find a garage. I can find something because it’s like anxiety-provoking to figure out where the location is. So for me, on the first session, they’ll get an automatic text message that says, here’s my address, go into the elevator, turn left, and that’s just going to help build rapport better. Also, being able to see the space that I’m going to down also gives me more at ease. Okay. It’s familiar. Something that could initially be unfamiliar and scary turns into more familiar. I know how this is going to look like. I know how Monica looks like even through my podcast and everything. I just want to provide a space for people to have a general idea of who I am. I give them office directions, very detailed because I remember myself feeling super nervous in the first time and having even my website video where the lobby is and where the space is. Just provide some comfort, especially to a scary situation. If it’s your first time in therapy, just being able to know how that’s going to look like, makes something that initially was uncomfortable and unfamiliar feel more comfortable and familiar. And that’s what I strive for. Even with content on social media, in my podcast, I strive for people to get to know me a little bit so that it’s not so scary. Something that I love is when people call me on a console and they’re like, I feel like I already know you. I feel like already so comfortable talking to you. And that’s like the best compliment. Okay, what I’m putting my energy into is working, and I encourage clinicians who are listening to this to think about in what ways can they already pre-comfort their clients, like how can you make it easier? And I just love looking at people’s faces. It just gives me so much ease and comfort. I even love watching cleaning videos, and decluttering videos because it bring me so much comfort and I’m like an HGTV fan. So I just love being able to use what I learned from all those shows and creating a little video for my clients.

Becky Coplen: Let’s just talk a little bit about the future of your practice or where you see things changing, and improving? I definitely see you as not a static person. So what do you see for the future? And I do want to say it again, but I’m going to double-check that. I don’t say it the wrong way. Latinx is it? Link yeah, Latinx licensed professional, but what was the name of the company again?

Monica Denais: So you said cafe with Monica.

Becky Coplen: That’s the name of the podcast and the practice or just the podcast?

Monica Denais: Yeah, my practice is just named after me, so it’s just Monica Denais Counseling.

Oh, yes. Okay. Yeah. How do you see the future of your practice changing? Evolving?

Monica Denais: I’m going to be very honest with you. As someone who was always an achiever growing up, I have. Redefine what ambition means to me and what that will look like for my practice. If you’d have asked me two years ago, three years ago, I would have said, oh, I’m going to grow this group practice and I’m going to go have keynotes, and I’m going to build a course and membership. And to be completely honest, I really would like to continue to stay small in my practice because I feel like I create the most impact with having a small caseload. I personally don’t want to be anybody’s boss. The extent to that would be just like growing a team of people to help me outsource things would be the case, and I would love more to be more consulting in other group practices. That’s what I see in the individual level with clinicians, and how they can better make their group practices more efficient, and so they can thrive as individual entrepreneurs, but also as part of a team in a group practice. And then I also just want to continue expanding my presence on social media. I started last year on YouTube, which is something that I was always afraid of. It’s actually one of the reasons why I started a podcast, first, because I was so self-conscious about being online and also just being on video. So started the podcast. That helped me really cultivate the skill of being able to have conversations. I had more speaking events, I started recording more videos, and so finally did my YouTube channel. And that’s where I want to continue because I think it’s a great way to where I blend mental health and lifestyle content to provide more accessibility to topics that maybe someone would only be introduced to if they had access to therapy. So that’s what I’m seeing myself right now. So it’s funny that you said, I see yourself not being stagnant. And I’m like, yes. But I’m also like, I really want to stay small in the sense of my practice, but maybe bigger in my social media presence.

Becky Coplen: Is there anything else that you felt that we didn’t cover today that you would want our listeners to know about?

Monica Denais: No, I think that we covered everything. I think the biggest takeaway is for people to this is a new clinician or someone who’s in their first three years or someone who’s already expanded and have grown, but maybe they’re not feeling fulfillment in what they’re doing, that allowing themselves to accept that it’s okay to change your mind, and it’s okay to start saying that you are something because how are you going to become it unless you say it out loud and unless you create the steps to do it? I think so much. I can’t call myself an expert because of this, and I can’t call myself an expert because of that. You’re already an expert. I used a lot of the way I build my practice from my own personal experiences, and that has helped me so much and has been so relatable to my clients. Everyone’s an expert in their own lives. They have so many like knowledge and things that they could integrate into their practice and who they serve that could really help them, like create a practice that they love and that thrives.

Becky Coplen: We’re so appreciative of your time today, Monica, and I encourage you if you’re enjoying our podcast, to listen to Cafe with Monica. Lots of great episodes with all kinds of people. I want to say there are over 80 episodes, so enjoy that. And to our listeners, thank you for chiming in for tuning in. Please give us feedback on topics or types of therapists that you’d like to hear from, and please come back to the show to listen for more niche counselors and therapists and all kinds of you can see that all of these are different. So thank you so much for tuning in. Thank you for being here today, Monica.

Monica Denais: Thank you so much for having me.

Becky Coplen: You’ve been listening to the Mastering Counseling podcast by mastersincounseling.org. Join us again next episode as we explore what it takes to be a business success in the counseling industry.